To wonder why so many people are hypocrites when it comes to housing?

[WestminsterCrabby]

Got into quite a heated row discussion last night with some relatives. 🍷

They are Fuming (capital F intended) about all the new housing estates popping up in their leafy village. Apparently its ruined the views, ruined their dog walks yaddah yaddah.

These are couples in their late 50s early 60s whose children are long gone but still live in their large 4 bed detached homes. When I pointed out that perhaps so many new homes wouldnt need to be built (or smaller ones that took up less space) if people only took up the amount of space they needed rather than felt entitled to, they thought I was being very very unreasonable. I disagree!

I appreciate that people living in houses bigger than there needs is not the cause of the housing shortage HOWEVER surely you cant complain about other people needing to be housed while you yourself have 2 bedrooms per person?!?

Drives me mad and it's not the first time I've had conversations like this with people in a similar circumstances.

It makes me sad to see the countryside being converted over as well but people have got to live somewhere.

Aibu here?

So many newbuilds look horrible- Ticky tacky flimsy looking dwellings thrown up as cheaply as possible.
I just don’t understand why so many houses are being built-
We ARE an overcrowded Island, no one can deny that.
Any little patch of land now has planning on it, locally.
Has the population exploded?
Houses being flung up but no Doctors or dentists
and schools are overwhelmed.

@Pasithea
"We would love to move to a smaller place but need land for our animals. Every bungalow with land is immediately made bigger and of no use whatsoever to us."

Someone posted about the amount of people who turn bungalows into two storey houses and/or add bedrooms. People were posting why shouldn't they, but didn't get that it means a lack of downsizing properties.

I don't think that building should be allowed unless local services have had a promise of investment and expanding. We do need to address our population levels. The plan in the 80's of moving all of the employment further South and abroad was always going to cause a housing crisis. Buy-to-let has spurred it on. The rents across the NW don't match the earnings and things are going to get worse with remote working. People are relocating for bigger houses, but it will cause a rise in prices that the local population can't afford. But ultimately I don't see how we can justify the benefit rules for two children yet say that we aren't overpopulated.

I agree but am also a bit of a hypocrite. I live in an area which refused new houses for awhile then got told it had to so had several years of housing built in a short space of time so loads of traffic disruption, noise etc. I fully think they need to build more homes but just think the planning is poor IE not enough space for cars, local amenities like doctors, schools, bus routes etc. It's also not necessarily enough smaller homes as they don't make the money. To be fair, the more recent massive development s do seem better planned but the early ones were terrible.

On the older people in big homes, I do have some sympathy. It's their home. I wouldn't move unless I had to either. Also we tend to meet at parents houses as none of us kids or grandkids can afford a house big enough to host family get togethers. I think there is a point though where big houses become too much for them to manage and downsizing is beneficial to them but that's not until very old age or infirmity in most cases. I know it's the logical solution to the housing crisis but I doubt I would be thinking greater good and probably would be selfish too. As I said, hypocrite.

You have a point but how does suggesting people with large homes downside help? Would people who need houses be able to afford to buy them? What if they can’t, I’m not sure how that helps anyone?

Concerns about massive new house building without proper infrastructure are very valid. Houses are all well and good but without enough GP surgeries and schools you can’t blame the existing residents of an area for worrying.

We have loads of empty shops or property underused. I'd prefer to see that tackled to solve the housing crisis. Alongside having some parts of the country where there is a ban on second homes, or a local market policy.

Speaking as an older person (74) who lives in a 2 bedroom flat with a close friend who is a widow still living in their large family home, the older one gets the harder it becomes to leave your long lived in home and community. It's not as simple as just downsizing so that a young family can move in. Overall there just aren't enough homes for the people who need them. My flat, should I need to move, appeals to first time buyers, retirees, single divorcees and BTL buyers. Other than in built up urban areas these aren't being built.

But you would think that the councils would see the link between their planning departments granting planning permission and understanding that in an aging society, we need to do what we can to help elderly people remaining living at home, and therefore bungalows are a key part of this. If there are rules about introducing a certain proportion of affordable housing within development plans, the same should be for bungalows as well.

And to be honest, based on the developments taking place in my village I cannot understand how the fuck we are in 2022 in an energy crisis, and these homes are not being built with solar panels as standard, or with energy efficient heat sources. Surely if the government are clear about this, there should be legislation to ensure that any new build property is built with energy efficiency in mind?

I completely agree op.

But apparently ‘left wing’ mumsnet will go all capitalist on you and say as long as they can afford it then it’s fine.

Not that I ever intend moving when the kids move out but I haven’t objected to my views being ruined by the new houses being built locally…..

My DM wanted to downsize. It was a big mental shift for her because she’d lived in the same area for 40 years and wasn’t good with change. After a lot of thought, she found a housing estate that was being developed at a location she thought would be perfect for her but there were only two bungalows being built in an area with a large population of elderly people, and they were snapped up. She died in the massive house.

Not disagreeing with the sentiment, however given the reaction on MN when a dog so much as glances towards a child's playpark I can understand why the dog walkers want to go somewhere separate.

I do think, with our ageing population and the crisis in elderly care, by the time current working adults are in that situation, there will need to be a shift towards downsizing and moving into purpose-built accommodation at an earlier stage and before significant infirmity. Our generation may be more open to doing this, particularly if we have never been able to afford an established family home that we love or have been renting for most of our working lives. The trouble with a lot of purpose build retirement complexes is the caveats put upon them (service charges and sell-back valuations set by them) and bungalows are few and far between.

I can see both sides tbh, why should our boomer parents give up their beloved homes full of memories if they don’t want to and it is really important development planning carefully considers both access to public services and the environment (many new developments are only easily accessed by car). However, the lack of empathy and constant moaning about younger generations and their expectations (basically to be able to afford a home and decent life from full time employment) based on a few articles in the mail or telegraph can be wearing. I really struggle to avoid getting drawn in to discussing it.

Same issue here. DH is chair of our Parish Council planning committee, so I get to hear all about it! We drew up a neighbourhood plan, that did actually research the housing need in the village and then determined how many and what kind of housing we needed to be developed here. As you said, it was 1 and 2 bedroom flats and homes with a smaller need for some affordable/social housing for families.

All the development applications are for 3/4 bed executive homes priced at £500k+
This is not what we need! We have people who do want to downsize, but want to stay local and there is no where for them to move to. We have families who have been here for generations, but their younger ones with their own children have to move away because they can't afford to live here.

How can you disagree with people complaining that massive building works have ruined their view and their dog walks if they’re telling the truth and just chatting about what’s going on for them in life?

It is horrible living next to building sites, even if you agree that more houses need to be built. Agreeing that more housing is needed doesn’t mean you can’t be concerned that local infrastructure won’t be able to cope adequately with many more residents living there.

It sounds like you’re being quite rude to people by insinuating that they are doing something wrong by living in their own homes.

Why bungalows though? They have a larger footprint and they are characterless (in my view)
Why not build semis and terraces for singles and younger families to start off in? Well insulated and with new materials, they could fill a need in villages as well as towns.
Why not convert some of the empty High Stree shops to flats?
Why not convert some of the bigger houses to flats?

All rhetorical questions, though I suspect the answers have to do with profit.
We have just had two small developments in our village. One is huge 4+ bedroomed houses, bought by people with no links to the village, commuting to cities and whose social lives are elsewhere; the other is semis, bought by people who are local and who use the village amenities, pub, school, etc. I bet I know which one was more profitable.

if people only took up the amount of space they needed rather than felt entitled to

sigh. So simplistic a view. I live in a house that will soon be far too big for me. I would love to move. But rising housing costs, the remaining mortgage that needs paying off, the scarcity of smaller properties locally, moving costs, conveyancing, stamp duty…all mean that realistically, I wouldn’t be better off for a good number of years. Why should I cause myself financial issues?

This happens all over Scotland sadly. No thought given to the extra need for primary schools, secondary schools, GPs, hospitals etc. They actually advertise that the new estate has a school near it. That's full. But they keep building.

I just keep pointing out on every application that they haven't considered the infrastructure, and pointing out their stupidity. Doubtful that it will do anything, but least when things go wrong they can't say 'we didn't know' or 'no one complained'.

Why not convert some of the empty High Street shops to flats?

This is certainly happening in our town - entire office blocks are being converted into flats.

Your relatives @WestminsterCrabby are upset, because the character of the place they've presumably lived in for years has changed. It's gone from a small place with lots of green space nearby for leisure, to a bigger place with new housing estates now built on that green space they so enjoyed as an amenity. I don't blame them tbh, I think many people are sad that the character of their villages, towns or small cities is changing in this way.

My small city, which already suffers with horrible congestion and is full of old, narrow streets, has been told it has to provide 2,400 new homes by 2038. This will have a huge impact on the quality of life of everyone who already lives here, since every new home generates probably 2 new cars on the roads. And that's before you consider that all our schools, doctor's surgeries and dentists are already oversubscribed. I wish 'new towns' were still a thing and that existing towns weren't required to constantly expand so that they lose the very things that people loved about them in the first place.

Edinburgh is becoming encircled by massive new housing estates, I'm sure every single house will be someone's beloved family home, but they are soulless, heartless estates. Again, houses built too close together, no shops/cafes/amenities, no thought to schooling, medical provision, congestion.

Often these estates built on the outskirts of cities have poor public transport links, leading to more congestion on main routes into the city.

Moving house is a difficult and very expensive business. YABU to think people should feel obliged to leave the house they paid for and have made their home every time a change in personal circumstances affects the number of people currently living in their house.

That's got nothing to do with complaining about necessary new houses being built. YANBU about the NIMBYism around that.

YABU as the housing shortage is worse for smaller properties than larger. So even if older couples/singles want to downsize, they find that they cannot more often than families trying to upsize find they cannot.

In addition, YABU to think that just because you live in a house, you can’t complain about how new housing is being built in your community. The planning permission for these estates has been fast tracked to the point of harmfulness to communities because many are being built in small villages without the proper infrastructure upgrades (roads, water, sewage, electric, internet, etc) or allowances for necessary basic services for an increased village population (schools, GP surgeries, dentists, etc). As residents of the village, your parents have every right to complain.