My love of Gone with the Wind and other problematic films/literature

[RedSquirrel111]

Interested in other opinions on this.

I first read Gone with the Wind in school and since then have gone through 3 copies. It's my favourite comfort book that I re-read a couple of times a year. I also adore the film, Vivien Leigh and the gorgeous technicolor cinematography.

However it is undeniably and explicitly racist. Both the film and the book, more so the book (if you can measure such things). I fell in love with Scarlett as the first 'fuck you' 3 dimensional female character I'd ever read, and I still love her.

Do you read it as 'a book of its time'? (With a critical eye but still enjoy it?) Or is it one that whilst I don't want to say 'cancelled' should be resigned to history in the way that, say, birth of a nation, has been?

When it comes to artists I'm very much 'separate the art from the creator' and therefore have no problem reading Roald Dahl for example.

However this is different as its the subject matter and not just the author.

I'd especially be grateful for the view of any BAME women - especially if American!!!

Yes. It was a 'refreshingly' different portrayal of motherhood, especially for its time.

Her attitude towards children was they were an unfortunate bi product of sex rather than something she wanted.

Sounds like Queen Victoria...

@StrychnineInTheSandwiches
So very true, I love the fact that QV was the epitome of family life and motherhood but in truth was a tyrant who referred to her babies as frogs and thought they were too repulsive to look at until they were six months old!

DD (14) and I have been watching Young Sheldon and while it's a modern programme it's set in the 80s and DD was horrified at some of the main characters saying well meaning but ignorant comments that we would now consider microagressions. I should point out for those that haven't seen it that we are absolutely expected to be see these comments as of their time. As someone who remembers the 80s I found DDs response quite enlightening on how far we've moved (e.g. I know my Mum wouldn't think there was anything wrong with what was said because the characters were being polite and welcoming).

DD also finds the sexist and homophobic jokes in Friends quite shocking, I'm 100% with her there. I'm surprised that it is still so popular actually, it's looking very dated.

Gone With The Wind is one of my favourite books too - I didn't like the follow-up, Scarlett, at all, however - a watered down PC version written for a modern audience.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

Perhaps we should destroy all literature that doesn't fit in today, which will probably be anything published pre-2020? In fact, perhaps we should just erase all of history?

the hysterics have commenced

she (and a lot of her relatives) certainly had a frogginess about the eyes!

Maybe you should relax a bit, you sound het up.

The racism is completely undeniable. My question is if you can still enjoy it.

I mean.... really OP?

Yes, I think historical books should be kept available as something to be taught and learned from. I'm not saying they should be burned or anything like that.

But that is very different from, as you say, wearing out three copies of a book because you love it so much you keep reading it for enjoyment. I genuinely don't understand how you can love reading a book that is thoroughly racist, that presents the KKK as a good and honourable thing. That plays a huge role in Dixie nostalgia, which props up white nationalists to this day.

I'm a white American and I would seriously side-eye any other American who told me they love this book and re-read it all the time. I understand it might not be so obvious for Brits. But maybe have a think about it.

The "follow up" (not written by MM) was awful!

Everyone wanted to get MM to write a final happy ending chapter but she refused. In fact, I think she wrote the last chapter first, so she knew from the start there would be no happy ending

Bit of a detail but Churchill never said that. It was a meme dreamed up by the American right in 2020, to try and give added legitimacy to their arguments against removing confederate statue.

Derail not detail.

Ashley explicitly says in the book that he would have freed all the slaves of the war hadn’t done so. Scarlett is a hard hearted bitch who not only steals her sisters husband but also uses and condones abuse of convict labour - Margaret Mitchell is on record as saying she always saw Melanie as the heroine not Scarlett.

He might not have been silent but he still sat at the big "white" table.

I tried to read it once but found Margaret Mitchell's glorification of the KKK etc very distasteful. I was surprised because it was listed in the BBC's 'Top Fifty Books of all time' or similar title. It was on about 15 years ago. It was a series with different celebrities doing presentations advocating different books, then viewers could vote for the winner. Anyone else remember that? (GWTW wasn't the winner, can't remember what was now).

I wouldn't want it banned or anything (slippery slope) but I think that, like a pp said, it will probably become less and less popular over the years. Hopefully. It is just a historical bodice-ripper really, hardly great literature. And I don't know about it being 'of its time', the storyline does take place in the 1860s, but don't forget Margaret Mitchell was writing in the 1930s and should have known better. Shame on her really.

It’s a bit more than a “bodice ripper” - it won the Pulitzer Prize. And Margaret Mitchell was born in 1900 and started writing GWTW in 1926 - in a world where black civil rights didn’t really exist and segregation and discrimination was very much a fact of life.

She should have had the humanity and empathy to know that the KKK was evil. She must have been aware of lynchings of black Americans that were happening during her lifetime. Plus the rise of fascism in Europe etc. If she was an intelligent woman, aware of the world around her.

I don't know about the Pulitzer prize, I suppose they awarded it because 1
GWTW was outstandingly popular at the time. 2. It dealt with 'big themes' - the American Civil war. However reading it today it doesn't seem to have much literary merit IMHO.

I think of the pro KKK film 'Birth of a Nation' which was also lauded as an artist masterpiece at the time, but now is just a historic curiosity.

I remember that, @pemba. I have a feeling Tolkien or CS Lewis came in at the top spot.

Oh thanks Strychnine. I had forgotten. I suppose the BBC thought it was good cheap programming that would reel viewers in to vote etc. Well I quite enjoyed it at the time. They also did 20 (or 50) greatest Britons. Who won, Churchill?

As my name suggests I have a love of GWTW. But mostly as a romance with good characters. I too loved Scarlett as a kick ass woman who didn't live by the rules of society. Nowadays though I see that she's just selfish & spoilt. But I still enjoy it.

Whilst the lionisation of the KKK is awful it does give a human story that I think is interesting. It shows how everyone sees things from a pretty selfish perspective. The former plantation owners have not a moment's pause for how they treated their slaves, Ashley aside. But to defend 'their own' they rally together to 'fight back'. And it's shown as reasonable and justified.

Books give a window into the lives and thinking of people not like you. That's why they are awesome. We suspend our disbelief and build empathy (or rage!) as we find characters we liked are flawed and human.

Although all that said I do love a bit of Rhett Butler action 😁

I absolutely loved the book, but have never seen the film. It didnt even occur to me how racist it was, but so much flies over my head. I guess thats part of the problem

I am ethnically Indian. Generally I do not favour censorship for old movies and books where the context or writing presents issues such as stereotyping or negative portrayals. I think you simply read understanding the historic background and context. Most books and films these days would contain some warning upfront of inappropriate language or content. Literature in particular is quite a good way of demonstrating how casual racism was even in relatively recent times.

Omg you have never seen Gone with the wind?!?! It's one of the best films of all time and Vivien Leigh's performance of Scarlett is the best performance by a female actress ever in my opinion.