My love of Gone with the Wind and other problematic films/literature

[RedSquirrel111]

Interested in other opinions on this.

I first read Gone with the Wind in school and since then have gone through 3 copies. It's my favourite comfort book that I re-read a couple of times a year. I also adore the film, Vivien Leigh and the gorgeous technicolor cinematography.

However it is undeniably and explicitly racist. Both the film and the book, more so the book (if you can measure such things). I fell in love with Scarlett as the first 'fuck you' 3 dimensional female character I'd ever read, and I still love her.

Do you read it as 'a book of its time'? (With a critical eye but still enjoy it?) Or is it one that whilst I don't want to say 'cancelled' should be resigned to history in the way that, say, birth of a nation, has been?

When it comes to artists I'm very much 'separate the art from the creator' and therefore have no problem reading Roald Dahl for example.

However this is different as its the subject matter and not just the author.

I'd especially be grateful for the view of any BAME women - especially if American!!!

What an interesting thread. I too used to love this film as a teen and I'm ashamed to say I only picked up on the v uncomfortable and blatant racism when I rewatched it as an adult.

The modern day author I have a huge issue with is David Walliams - I think his books are awful, with a thread of racism and classism running through nearly all of them. Total cringe. Doesn't even have the excuse of having been written several decades ago. My kids used to love them (not bought by me!) so we used some of the characters as a talking point.

He's been compared to Roald Dahl (problematic himself!) but I don't think his books have the clever darkness of RD's nastier characters.

Sorry, slight derail there.

Have you read the book? It quite clearly depicts slavery and the KKK as good things. Not to mention the awful stereotypes.

Yes, read the book when I was a teen and seen the film a few times.

Perhaps I remember what I saw in it, rather than what was there. IYKWIM?

How could the other stars do it, Clark Gable was supposed to be her friend.

I know. It's hard to understand their behaviour now, it seems so heartless. I guess cultural norms were very different, which is exactly the point.

I just try to see things as if their time. Books and films help us to understand how things were in the last and can give us an insight into why change was needed. You don't have to agree with racism or sexism to enjoy great literature.

Sorry for terrible typos. of their time and in the past

Yes, the 'gone with wind' is a lament to how things used to be....
With plantations built on slavery.
Never mind the characters such as 'Big Sam'
There's a bit in the book that explains how 'N* are like children'
The racism is completely undeniable. My question is if you can still enjoy it.

But having racist characters is not the same as a book being racist.

I mean, this is not a hill I'm going to die on, I'm a white woman. But showing racism is not the same as being racist.

Gone with the Wind is most certainly racist. It's undeniable if you read the novel. It romanticises a terrible period in history. It's still very enjoyable, but you have to understand that it's complete and utter fiction. Read Uncle Tom's Cabin for the other side of the story.

Or The Wind Done Gone.

I tried reading it a couple of years ago and had to give up. I was expecting it to be “of its time”, but I thought the racism went beyond that, it felt completely ingrained in the tone of the narrative, and I felt tainted and horrible reading it. I only got a couple of chapters in, so maybe it improved. But I think there’s a difference between a book depicting racism, and a racist book, and GWTW was the latter. I wouldn’t cancel it, but I wouldn’t shed a tear if people lost interest in reading it and it went out of print. That’s just natural progress, not rewriting history. There are a lot of books that were considered good when they were written that have gone out of fashion or no longer appeal to modern taste.

I think that even if there is overt racist sentiment or language, portraying black characters as complex/sympathetic/ multi dimensional makes a big difference.

If there is respect for basic humanity, then the story can remain relevant and engaging.

Only by reading actual accounts of the time can you know how things were and learn from it. GWTW is so interesting because of the slavery. It is involved physical violence and cruelty, which is depicted in other books.

But it also involved situations that differed from that - where slaves where treated more like a much loved family pet.

Without that, you think that only mean nasty people had slaves and therefore now, in the modern world, you're safe from being racist as you're a 'nice' person. But knowing about slaves as being like a much loved family pet opens your eyes to how easy it was to think slavery was ok and how nice people can be racist, even whilst being nice. That racism and slavery didn't have to be cruel to happen.

Hope that makes sense.

I agree with other posters - if we cancelled, or just discouraged, consuming any media that doesn't confirm to our current sensibilities it would be really hard for people to ever understand the extent to which various minorities were disadvantaged, and as a result recognise the bravery and effort of those who fought to improve their position and be wary of how important it is to constantly support and protect current rights.

In terms of GWTW specifically, I read a really interesting article on how they adapted some of the problematic elements of the book for the film, OP, if you're interested? It's interesting that there were some 'racist' elements that were considered fine to keep while there was simultaneously others they understood even then would not be ok to have in film, plus the efforts they went to to actively appeal to black viewers, and the contradictory views of contemporaneous black people about the film....
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1999/12/gone-with-the-wind-and-hollywoods-racial-politics/377919/

I read "Uncle Tom's Cabin" afterwards for the other side of the story. "Uncle Tom's Cabin" over "Gone with the Wind" every time.

Uncle Tom's Cabin has gone from being the best selling novel in mid Victorian England to barely read now because it too is full of racial stereotypes that we find unacceptable these days. Of course that doesn't stop it being historically important because of its role in the abolitionist movement.

But it doesn't show racism... it romanticises slavery. The 'good' slaves like mammy stay with the family.
The ones that wanted freedom are drunk rapists. Hence why the upstanding men like Ashley formed the KKK.
Maybe the redeeming factor is Rhett who saw it all as society bollocks from the start
and swoon over Clarke Gable as if you'd fancy Ashley over Rhett????

Maybe the redeeming factor is Rhett who saw it all as society bollocks from the start

Of course he is the redeeming factor. He shows the men as being unreasonable when they go out that night. He makes Scarlett face what she has done.

Gone with the Wind is one of my favourite books. Mum encouraged me to read it as a teenager and I loved it. But I don't support slavery. If you cancel books, where do you stop? Do you cancel Mozart's operas? Or Shakespeare or Moliere? These were all written in a time when people had different views of life. You can't wipe out all past culture.

You do know the US in the time of slavery was racist right?
And that many/most people thought it was fine?

That is what it depicts.
It's the romanticising of it that is shocking and interesting. That complex characters you love, didn't question such evil.

It should make every young person who reads it ask themselves: in reality if I'd lived then what would I have believed and done?

And that's the important question.
Not: Do you agree with the now current consensus it was deeply evil? That's easy and obvious and tells you nothing about people, the world or yourself.

What's the alternative? Only allow young people to read revised histories which explain everything within the current moral framework?
No old fiction, original texts, dissenting opinion, or 'problematic' texts?

Id confidently say a society which goes down that route is stunted and doomed.

"I don't support slavery" 🤣
Well done you.

But are you sure? You did enjoy Gone with the Wind.

Sorry @LetitiaLeghorn I know you're being flippant, but that is an example of the inanity we get reduced to.

(For the record, I don't support slavery either)

I can't remember very well, but doesn't Scarlett start to question her views about slavery and black people?
Isn't part of the books interest that she holds two opposing views, she loves her nanny (i read it a long time ago, can't remember the nanny's name) but also believes slavery is acceptable and black people are inferior to white.

It's the romanticising of it that is shocking and interesting. That complex characters you love, didn't question such evil.

It should make every young person who reads it ask themselves: in reality if I'd lived then what would I have believed and done?

Indeed, throughout history normal people who would consider themselves good, have participated in awful things.
Similarly, would I have sheltered or shopped a Jewish family if I'd lived in Nazi Germany. I know what I want to say..... but I didn't live then and there.

It should make every young person who reads it ask themselves: in reality if I'd lived then what would I have believed and done?

That is a tough question because time and again we hear people say there is absolutely no way I could ever have done X Y or Z. But the truth is most people will actually conform with the acceptable norms of their society, reading a book like GWTW should make people realise that the past is something we should learn from, something we move on from, so we don't make the same mistakes again.

I think it's a shame Uncle Tom's Cabin is considered somehow offensive. It had a profound effect on me when I read it as a teen. It's so powerful. And of course it was powerful enough to effectively start the Civil War.

On a more lighthearted note, Ashley Wilkes was completely miscast in the film. It was impossible to understand what Scarlett saw in him whereas in the novel (albeit it was annoying) I could understand what drew her to him.