My love of Gone with the Wind and other problematic films/literature

[RedSquirrel111]

Interested in other opinions on this.

I first read Gone with the Wind in school and since then have gone through 3 copies. It's my favourite comfort book that I re-read a couple of times a year. I also adore the film, Vivien Leigh and the gorgeous technicolor cinematography.

However it is undeniably and explicitly racist. Both the film and the book, more so the book (if you can measure such things). I fell in love with Scarlett as the first 'fuck you' 3 dimensional female character I'd ever read, and I still love her.

Do you read it as 'a book of its time'? (With a critical eye but still enjoy it?) Or is it one that whilst I don't want to say 'cancelled' should be resigned to history in the way that, say, birth of a nation, has been?

When it comes to artists I'm very much 'separate the art from the creator' and therefore have no problem reading Roald Dahl for example.

However this is different as its the subject matter and not just the author.

I'd especially be grateful for the view of any BAME women - especially if American!!!

Apparently Clarke Gabel did offer to boycott the premiere ,but Hattie McDaniel insisted he went ( according to Wikipedia)
But yes she was treated terribly absolutely awful .

Wouldn't it have been lovely if he'd gone and sat with her.

Yes indeed that would have been a meaningful gesture .

And then he rapes her.

Yes, not allowed to claim her oscar in the usual way, because she was black. I do believe that Clark Gable was furious, and spoke up about the way she was being treated. He was not silent.

I love the sweeping Hollywood grandeur of the film- and of course that score. . I recently tried to reread the book though and found it impossible to wade through. The film is obviously reflective of a shocking era in history and the portrayal of black characters is problematic but the book just champions racism. I won't read it again

But it is a piece of history in itself.... Hattie McDaniel first african american to win an oscar... in a ceremony held in a venue that she would otherwise have not been allowed into.

She was allowed in but had to sit at a segregated table at the side, not where all the white people were sitting. She was also unable to attend the premiere of the film as it was held in a whites only theatre.

If you watch films with depicting violence, murder, rape, war etc. are you condoning them?

I don’t believe so.

Though I’d say it would be different if someone wrote something obviously racist/sexist/anyotherist today and you supported them by buying their material, you really can’t compare that to classics that are an example of their time.

I think trying to sanitise history, just because it makes us uncomfortable today, is a huge mistake.

I suppose you could argue that Margaret Mitchell was the one trying to sanitise history seeing as the book was written in 1936.

I think it illustrates the era in a way that no-one could or would do now. So a historical document in more ways than one.

I haven't read GWTW for 40 years but I still have my copy. Time for a reread.

I read crime and thrillers. Doesn't mean I condone murder.

For me, great literature is about complex, conflicted characters. So Scarlett goes on a fantastic feminist journey from spoilt brat to empowered woman, but she's a rich white Southerner whose comfortable upbringing and outlook is founded on slavery. I like to be challenged like this when reading.

I think GWTW offers a powerful counterpoint to other literature depicting the brutal reality of slavery in terms of whippings and physical labour (eg Toni Morrison). It shows what might superficially seem "nice" slave owners, who consider trusted slaves to be "part of the family". There's a sense of incredulity that black people might want more- the ingratitude! I think this insidious attitude is still very much pertinent in modern racial tensions in the US.

There's also the rape of Scarlett to consider, in finding it problematic as an inspiring story.

I think it's a shame Uncle Tom's Cabin is considered somehow offensive. It had a profound effect on me when I read it as a teen. It's so powerful. And of course it was powerful enough to effectively start the Civil War.

I think taste and sensibilities changes so what was powerful and important can become less so with time. But on the other hand there is renewed interest in the autobiographies of people who were enslaved like Frederick Douglass and Olaudah Equiano. They speak to us more now than a novel written by a white woman.

I'm not black, but I'm of Native American descent. It grates when I see the santitized, racist versions of cowboy films, but they are of their time and should still be available. It bothers me that some cowboy/Indian shows are still in operation, they are actually depicting a genocede and ethnic cleansing. Likewise Canada being seen as so much more civilised than the US, yet it hides its treatment of first nation people.
If we banned every sexist book then there'd be very few available and why shouldn't we take the same stance against sexism? I think education is always the key and for any young people starting off reading the classics etc, a wide range of reading material and it being discussed.

I think context is everything. TCM recently showed GWTW. Before it was broadcast, there was programme explaining the facts of slavery, the fact that the book was written in 1936 and it wasn't a contemporary account and also covered the disgusting treatment of Hattie McDaniels. I think, but can't be certain, that use of the n word was removed. I think that explaining the context of the film, highlighting its historical inaccuracies and discussing how society has changed or not is a better move that saying ban it.

Yes, Rhett is definitely written as the good guy despite the rape.

As for the film, I think the casting was superb except Ashley! It was impossible to understand what Scarlett saw in Ashley in the film. Who would posters have cast as Ashley Wilkes if they had the choice?

I found Uncle Tom's Cabin very powerful. It showed how there were "nice" slave owners who treated their slaves well, but because slaves were considered property- when anything happened to the "nice" owners (death/bankruptcy/divorce) saves were then passed on just like other assets were and could end up anywhere.

slaves*

On the subject of the film, my other disappointment about the film (aside from Ashley) were that the Tarleton brothers - who were my favourite characters in the novel - were almost non-existent in the film bar the first scene.

@MichaelAndEagle
I always thought the relationship between Mammy and Scarlett to be one of the most fascinating aspects of the book. It was clear that Mammy was a slave but she had the ability to control Scarlett and Scarlett really needed her as an ally, as a confidante and as a mother figure. Rhett wanted her to have a good opinion of him so he saw her as some one worthy of respect. I used to wonder why, when the option of freedom was available, why did Prissy and the others remain. It wasn't until I was watching an episode of Blackish that I heard of neo slavery and how that continued up to the 1930s.

@XelaM
They also left Scarletts other children out and what a truly terrible mother she was.

Yes, definitely. She had two other kids with Charles and Frank, but I could kind of see why the film thought they were unimportant enough to leave out. Scarlett didn't think much of them 😂

Weren't they practically running Tara at the point she left with Rhett. I wondered what reception she'd have been given returning there after Rhett left her.

@JemmyP
I can't remember that bit. All I remember is Scarletts duel thinking when it came to marriage. When she was single, she mocked the married women and how dull and fat they were yet saw marriage as first an escape route and secondly as a conveyance. Her attitude towards children was they were an unfortunate bi product of sex rather than something she wanted.

We were watching Yes Minister the other day and there was a totally racist joke. Our 13 year old was horrified couldn’t believe e it was on tv. Our explanation that it was of it’s time sounded rather lame