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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is cruel for a puppy?

82 replies

walkingonnete · 04/05/2022 18:53

My sister shares a 9 year old daughter with her ex - they coparent very well and they get on great as friends - for instance, they will have a coffee and a chat at drop offs etc.

My niece is an only child and has been asking for a puppy. Both my sister and ex BIL want a dog but are unable to do it alone so they agreed on a puppy shared between two houses. Basically the puppy will be with my sister on the nights she has niece and the puppy with be with ex BIL the nights he has niece.

They got the puppy last week and she is so tiny and sister has just called me and said she has dropped her off there and is a bag of nerves. She has been training her etc and it's been going well but she's worried about leaving her.

I have told sister this will never work, I have had dogs all my adult life and they need consistency. They will never know their owner if they are here, there and everywhere. I also can't imagine getting a puppy, building a bond then leaving them to go to a random house.

It breaks my heart thinking how confused this poor puppy will be tonight.

The puppy is at ex BIL tonight then back with sister tomorrow then back with ex BIL on Friday until Monday. How can that not be confusing to the pup?

I give it a few months before they have to re home. It won't work but she is adamant it will. AIBU?

OP posts:
Foodbanksshouldbeobsolete · 04/05/2022 20:17

The alternative would be for them to have one home and see the other parent in that home, outside the home or for occasional overnights/holidays but that they have a consistent base. The only way I would inflict 50:50 or close on a child is if it was court ordered, as much as I think it's so important for establishing their attachment in early life it is just as important in older kids to have a base. I grew up in nearly 50:50 and ended up agoraphobic and at one house. I refused to go to school or would leave school early so that I wouldn't be picked up and go to the house I was unhappier at.
Not just my experience, either a lot of kids really struggle/struggled as kids. Jacqueline Wilson book 'the suitcase kid' captures well the feeling of homelessness. Grown ups all talked about having and two of everything. For me it always felt like having half of everything. As soon as I was settled in one home and routine I would be ripped out of it. I think it's done in the parents benefit not the kids in the majority of cases, and that having a regular stable consistent base to call home is not to be underrated.

fairylightsandwaxmelts · 04/05/2022 20:25

My own dog stays with my in-laws during the week while we work - he has different rules in each house and manages just fine.

At home, he's allowed on furniture, upstairs etc. - that's not allowed at the in-laws and he knows he has to sleep on the floor or in his bed there. It didn't take long for FIL to train him and he seems just as happy there as he is here.

JoeGoldberg · 04/05/2022 20:25

@Foodbanksshouldbeobsolete I actually agree with you btw, I wasn't trying to be goady I just wondered if we shared the same mindset. Luckily my exh didn't want anywhere near 50/50 - he has DC occasionally on an ad hoc basis - but if he had wanted it he'd have had to take me to court to gain it. Sorry not sorry. I firmly believe kids need a stable base.

HandbagsnGladrags · 04/05/2022 20:26

I think it's done in the parents benefit not the kids in the majority of cases, and that having a regular stable consistent base to call home is not to be underrated.

Appreciate it's not the optimum family life for a child but do you suggest that women stay in abusive marriages for the sake of the child? I speak as someone who was in that situation, and the only damage my child has suffered from it (now grown up) is at the hands of her controlling father who she now refuses to see. Consequently, I'm not 'tied to him forever' as another poster has suggested.

Original poster
walkingonnete · 04/05/2022 20:27

Foodbanksshouldbeobsolete · 04/05/2022 20:17

The alternative would be for them to have one home and see the other parent in that home, outside the home or for occasional overnights/holidays but that they have a consistent base. The only way I would inflict 50:50 or close on a child is if it was court ordered, as much as I think it's so important for establishing their attachment in early life it is just as important in older kids to have a base. I grew up in nearly 50:50 and ended up agoraphobic and at one house. I refused to go to school or would leave school early so that I wouldn't be picked up and go to the house I was unhappier at.
Not just my experience, either a lot of kids really struggle/struggled as kids. Jacqueline Wilson book 'the suitcase kid' captures well the feeling of homelessness. Grown ups all talked about having and two of everything. For me it always felt like having half of everything. As soon as I was settled in one home and routine I would be ripped out of it. I think it's done in the parents benefit not the kids in the majority of cases, and that having a regular stable consistent base to call home is not to be underrated.

In fairness my niece does have a stable household, she's with my sister most of the month, with her dad around 8 nights. Nothing else for it, she still needs to see her dad. However not sure how it works for a puppy, differently I'd imagine.

OP posts:
Foodbanksshouldbeobsolete · 04/05/2022 20:29

I do think there are occasions in which it can work with children and that is when the child has the right level of emotionally resilience, intellectual capacity and an equally strong relationship/attachment with both parents (who have always had a 50:50 role in care giving and carrying the mental load which is rare in couples which end in divorce in the first place), and who have a good coparenting relationship. But having it as the standard when the conditions are not normally ideal for such an arrangement is not done for the child IMO. It's for the parents to feel it's equal (even when it's not and their roles have always been different eg. One in the nurturing role and one in the providing role). It doesn't work so well with babies because they are more primal in their instincts and they don't form relationships in a more complex way yet. Puppies and dogs too actually are much more like that, they like to know who the leader/provider of food and care is and chopping and changing that is not to the dogs benefit but to the joint owners. More capacity for a situation where the dog has had a couple owning until they are an adult dog and then they split up and share the dog, than with a puppy. But still less than ideal and not really in the dogs interests.

JoeGoldberg · 04/05/2022 20:31

HandbagsnGladrags · 04/05/2022 20:26

I think it's done in the parents benefit not the kids in the majority of cases, and that having a regular stable consistent base to call home is not to be underrated.

Appreciate it's not the optimum family life for a child but do you suggest that women stay in abusive marriages for the sake of the child? I speak as someone who was in that situation, and the only damage my child has suffered from it (now grown up) is at the hands of her controlling father who she now refuses to see. Consequently, I'm not 'tied to him forever' as another poster has suggested.

No that's not what that poster was saying. I also fled with my DC from an abusive marriage and whilst life was a nightmare for a while (trying to find us somewhere to live, applying for benefits plus the ptsd fall out), it was 100% with it.

The stable home is with me, on my own, with me exh on the very periphery only occasionally having our DC.

fruitbrewhaha · 04/05/2022 20:32

Were you this worried about your niece?

emmakenny · 04/05/2022 20:32

fruitbrewhaha · 04/05/2022 20:32

Were you this worried about your niece?

The mad dog crew never are.

Original poster
walkingonnete · 04/05/2022 20:33

@Foodbanksshouldbeobsolete @JoeGoldberg I'm confused, are you both saying it's best if a child/puppy is with the main care provider 100 percent, 75 percent or 50 percent? I can't quite work it out.

OP posts:
Daffodilsdance · 04/05/2022 20:33

My friend works shifts ( days and nights ) and shares a dog with her mum who works on different days .The dog is now nine years old and is perfectly happy and well trained . Consistently is the key .

JoeGoldberg · 04/05/2022 20:34

@walkingonnete I'm saying if a child manages ok with 50/50 then so too can a puppy.

Foodbanksshouldbeobsolete · 04/05/2022 20:38

Puppy 100% / 0%
Adult dog 80% / 20%

Baby 100% / 0%
Toddler 85% / 15%
Older child maybe 75%/ 25% max

HandbagsnGladrags · 04/05/2022 20:39

@JoeGoldberg and that's fine if your ex agrees to it. Mine wanted pretty much 50/50. Anyway, just saying that life's not always that simple.

Foodbanksshouldbeobsolete · 04/05/2022 20:41

If the child is old enough to take on the responsibility as the dogs trainer and 'alpha' then it's different, though because with dogs it's more about primary owner than primary residence. I've known it with a teenage boy with 2 homes, the dog was his dog not the families dog, neither parent was part of that dogs training and care really.

bumblingbovine49 · 04/05/2022 21:02

It will be absolutely fine for the puppy. It wil be all it knows and is not a problem at all ( assuming it is well loved and things are kept reasonably consistent between households)

Bigblackandreddog · 04/05/2022 21:10

Dogs are more intelligent and adaptable than you are giving them credit for.

My first ever dog came everywhere with me. He stayed at my partners or a friends when I did. I travelled allover the UK working in various places and he came with me. Other times he stayed with my parents. During the day he would come to work with me and be perfectly happy pottering around there.

He was the most well rounded dog anyone could have asked for, certainty not traumatised from sleeping in different places.

My current dogs would probably freak out if I made them sleep somewhere new but a puppy brought up in this set up will be fine!

XelaM · 04/05/2022 21:25

The dog will be fine. It's not a cat and it has the 9-year-old there at both houses. Dogs can get used to several places and a number of people quickly. If both of them treat the dog well I don't see a problem.

My dog LOVES our dog walker's house for example and if we walk past, he will try to sneak i to her garden. He also loves his home. Dogs are smart creatures.

XelaM · 04/05/2022 21:27

Bigblackandreddog · 04/05/2022 21:10

Dogs are more intelligent and adaptable than you are giving them credit for.

My first ever dog came everywhere with me. He stayed at my partners or a friends when I did. I travelled allover the UK working in various places and he came with me. Other times he stayed with my parents. During the day he would come to work with me and be perfectly happy pottering around there.

He was the most well rounded dog anyone could have asked for, certainty not traumatised from sleeping in different places.

My current dogs would probably freak out if I made them sleep somewhere new but a puppy brought up in this set up will be fine!

Aww this is what we do with our dog. We take him everywhere with us and he adapts to any new place.

Lavenderosemary · 04/05/2022 21:31

It'll be absolutely fine, spoiled and loved across two homes. Sounds like a lucky puppy to me!

LoveSpringDaffs · 05/05/2022 15:38

If it had been my decision, in your sisters situation I'd have settled him in my house first, then done 'sleepovers' with DD at her Dads. I don't think it's ideal to have gone to her Dads within days of being separated from his mum & siblings, but once 'settled' I don't think it's a problem at all.

as others have said, plenty of dogs go to parents/friends/sitters quite happily.

LoveSpringDaffs · 05/05/2022 15:40

Drama llama title too, it's in no way 'cruel'.

NetflixMom21 · 05/05/2022 16:06

I think if a child can cope in that situation… then a puppy will be fine… as long as the training/rules/boundaries are the same in both houses and they have their own little safe space in both houses too. Puppies are a lot more resilient then we give them credit for. X

hellcatspanglelalala · 05/05/2022 16:22

It's mad to do this with a young puppy, it will never get into a proper routine. Wouldn't it have been possible for one of them to have it for the first few months until they'd got the potty training sorted and the pup was settled?

ReadyToMoveIt · 05/05/2022 16:31

walkingonnete · 04/05/2022 18:58

Yes she will always be with the 9 year old and they have made up a cheat sheet of routine to follow and training but that's besides the point. Whether my niece is there or not the puppy will be in two completely different environments. It's too confusing. Primarily she will be at my sisters for 22 nights out of the month and ex BIL 8 nights out of the month.

Show quote history

Very shortly after getting our puppy, circumstances entirely out of our control meant he had to spend a few days/nights every week with MIL. We had to do handovers on things like routine/toilet training. This went on until he was 18 months old, then we moved abroad permanently and took him with us.
He’s 11 now. A happier, more content dog you will never meet.