To think being a SAHM/housewife is not the same as someone claiming benefits?

[Jajana]

Was chatting to my sister and was talking about how my MIL is a housewife (sorry not sure if that’s the correct term). She said that being a SAHM/housewife is no different to someone claiming benefits and would rather claim benefits than rely on someone for an income!

Bearing in mind, FIL runs a very successful business and all of the money MIL receives is from private funds - not through the state.

Am i being reasonable to think being a SAHM/housewife isn’t the same as claiming benefits?

That was for @HandScreen

Okay, Topgub, it's clear what you think.
I'll leave it at that.

This is what I actually said @HandScreen (in reply to the first part in bold).

There's no way of saying sahm should be valued without devaluing wp imo

So you feel that SAHMs must be devalued in order to protect WOHMs? Rather tribal, that. I like to think there is room for the validation of both,

The sahm may bring value to the wp but that usually promotes sexism so I dont value that

Which makes is doubly difficult for previous SAHMs get into the workplace after a period away from it and further reduces women's choices.

I dont see any value to the kids outside of AN and even then I know its sometimes doable when you work

This is somewhat reductive. If someone cares for an elderly relative, for example, then this can be extremely valuable to children. It gives them a certain compassionate capital, shows first hand that people whilst they might be old and infirm they are certainly valued and loved. Equally, if someone spends a lot of time looking after lots animals or gardening or painting or running a sports team from home it might give a child valuable knowledge and experience of that. If someone has a health condition themselves it might benefit the children by not spreading themselves too thinly by working outside the home so they have some energy to interact with them. There are lots of valid ways SAH can benefit children.

Added to this, if the only way to validate being a SAHP is by caring for a child with ANs then that is a trade off I would not be willing to make. My DC's individual confidential information is their's to decide whether or not to share. I am not going to use it as a trade off for my own validation.
Equally, I don't want to be complicit in contributing to an assumption that children of SAHPs must have additional needs.
Plus it's hard work feeling the need to justify decisions to other people especially when they hold a certain amount of prejudice against your choice's. The prejudice on this subject, which I'm afraid is evident leads to a lack of trust - it's easy to start wondering if such a reductive and rigid outlook is indicative of people's general world ethos.

Last post @Topgub.

Right. But we were talking about what a SAHP does that a WOHP doesn't do. Aside from cooking, cleaning, childcare. You said it was more than this? WOHPs know what their children's food preferences are.

I said that they do longer hours of childcare @Handscreen, ie more childcare, childcare that is otherwise often outsourced. I think either wp or sahp option is fine, depends what suits an individual family.

"Does a part time nanny have less value than a full time one?"

Yes of course!

People I know who have part-time nannies view them as quite interchangeable far more dispensable. They are an "add on" rather than the mainstay,. If your part-time nanny cancels on you, or leaves, it's far less impact on you and your schedule. Also it's less impact on the child brcsuse they won't have grown so attached.

I have friends who have proper all-day full time nannies who probably do 80% of the 'childcare' overall - in terms of time physically spent with the kids. They do pretty much everything. One neighbour was commenting on how strange it is that her kids' fingernails never seem to grow - yes, that's because your nanny cuts them! These nannies do all the school runs, day to day teacher liaisons, socialise with other mums / nannies; play dates; clubs; sports matches; sort the clothes out; buy socks or uniform bits or whatever random costume or cardboard tubes or god knows what the school ask for; plan the meals. Plus they have more awareness of the friendship issues etc then the parents do because they see it on the child's face as they come out of school and are the sounding board for all the dramas kids have. Because they are there!

So if this type of full time nanny leaves, it's a massive upheaval for a child who will have built an important relationship with that carer. Also it a problem for parents to find a replacement and even when they find one, there's the chance of kids not taking to them.

@hihellohihello

So you feel that SAHMs must be devalued in order to protect WOHMs?

no. Thats not what I said. I said There's no way of saying sahm should be valued without devaluing wp.

There's not.

Anything you say about the value sahms add the wp will think, but I do that too. I feed them lunch. Yup. I know they like beans, yup. I taught them the alphabet. Yup. I do the school run, yup. Do parents nights. Yup. Take them on days out, yup. Do bedtimes. Yup.

How do you say you value sahm without taking away from wp? Without implying its better? Id love to know.

Which makes is doubly difficult for previous SAHMs get into the workplace after a period away from it and further reduces women's choices.

Yes being a sahm does make it harder ti get back into work and reduce choices. Thats the choice (if it is a choice) they make

I think its reductive to presume that wp don't also show their kids these values of caring for relatives and having hobbies. Of course they do.

@mintlimelemon

Do you apply those drawbacks to wp too?

in lots of cases people on benefits do work. Most cases in fact.

I love being a SAHP, i have loved spending all that time with our DS. It was the right choice for us. We knew all the risks and benefits and that was our choice.

Do i care if people look down on me,, absolutely not, if that opinion is from someone who only gives value or worth based on a job (or benefit claimer, god forbid!!!) that is not someones opinion i respect.

I dont, or never have before kids, judged anyone on the family choices they make, people make the best choices for them, providing they are informed and it is a choice, enjoy your life, its far too short to be unhappy if you dont have to.

How do you say you value sahm without taking away from wp? Without implying its better? Id love to know.

Again, I would point to how the specialist and someone who has diversified their skills can have skills which are equal and different. The specialist's expertise and experience is concentrated in a particular field, in fine detail and with greater experience than the person who has diversified their skills over the same period of time. The person who has diversified has a greater number and variety of skills even though there might be overlap between their skills and the specialist. Yet the specialist has more refined skills (as they have put more hours in operating) within their specialism.

Just like an equal measure of potatoes can be dispersed evenly throughout a casserole or eaten separately as a side dish. The amount of potatoes is the same. They are the same quality. However some people prefer eating the food one way and some another.

Yes being a sahm does make it harder ti get back into work and reduce choices. Thats the choice (if it is a choice) they make

No, it is the devaluation of the SAHM role that makes it harder to get back into the workplace. It is saying this devaluation is fair and the skills that the role requires are not valuable or relevant in any way to the workplace at - that is totally dismissing them without finding out more, that makes it harder to get back into the workplace.

I think its reductive to presume that wp don't also show their kids these values of caring for relatives and having hobbies. Of course they do.

Again I would look at the individual circumstances and look at how specialist, developed and refined their skills were in these areas.

I think its reductive to presume that wp don't also show their kids these values of caring for relatives and having hobbies. Of course they do.

Again I would look at the individual circumstances and look at how specialist, developed and refined their skills were in these areas.

And then if the skills involved were being considered with regards to the workplace I would look at the best match of skills and refinement of them with regards to the position in question over whether those skills were utilised within paid or unpaid work.

Anything you say about the value sahms add the wp will think, but I do that too. I feed them lunch. Yup. I know they like beans, yup. I taught them the alphabet. Yup. I do the school run, yup. Do parents nights. Yup. Take them on days out, yup. Do bedtimes. Yup.

Well it sounds like you're able to spend most of the day with your children - that would not have been possible in my job. I had to leave the house at 7:30 in the morning and didn't come home before 7pm. I also traveled abroad once a month.

So you're in a very fortunate position to be able to spend so much of each day with your children. Most working parents cannot do that unfortunately.

@hihellohihello

Tell me how saying sahm are more refined, specialised and have more expertise than wm isnt devaluing wm?

Its just big long fancy way of saying better.

The last bit is just nonsense, sorry.

@pinklavenders

You know there are 7 days in a week right?

And nights.

The idea that work is only done mon to fri 9 -5 is rubbish

Now children will obviously learn and absorb in the mother's / father's absence. But some women will always believe that they want to be influential and directive in that 'absorbing.' They want to be a part of their child's rapid development in their most active hours. They don't want to leave this crucial time to a third party, basically.

This development continues throughout childhood and some parents prefer to take a more active role in this. My children are being raised bilingually so another 'value added' to having a sahm speaking this language.

What on earth is this drivel? What does it even mean- are you suggesting that those who expend some time elsewhere aren't then as specialised as those who are with them all of the time in terms of parenting?

@pinklavenders

No.

A bilingual wp is also raising their child bilingually

A thread full of women scrabbling about after the crumbs from the master's table.

What on earth is this drivel? What does it even mean- are you suggesting that those who expend some time elsewhere aren't then as specialised as those who are with them all of the time in terms of parenting?

Drivel? Rather judgemental.

But yes, not as specialised but with more diversified skills (which could obviously benefit the child in some way as well).

It's not the same. One is a decision made as a family to split how you work and fund your family. The other is taking taxpayers' money.

@CloudPine

Speak for yourself

I have a career and share childcare with my oh.

I'm not scrabbling for anything

Tell me how saying sahm are more refined, specialised and have more expertise than wm isnt devaluing wm?

Only in what they do, what they have specialised knowledge in as a SAHP. Just as the WAHP may have more specialist knowledge elsewhere along with a more diversified skill set with some skills common to both the SAHP and WOHP.

A thread full of women scrabbling about after the crumbs from the master's table.

Thankfully, I receive more than crumbs and I don't have to scrabble for them either. 🙂