Page 19 | Part 2 -AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain

StormzyinaTCup · 2022-04-30T18:14:59+00:00

Just thought I would start a follow on thread for anyone interested in the trial. I have kept it in AIBU so that it is easier for previous posters from Part 1 to find. We are halfway through and have heard JD's testimony so next week we will hear from AH.

Midlifemusings · 04/05/2022 23:17

Few people expect anyone to be a perfect victim. However that doesn't mean that we ignore things that defy all logic.

Take the psychologist testomony that Amber endured repeated violent acts that made her fear for her life and safety, and has PTSD with symptoms of avoidance, hyperreactivity, triggering flashbacks and severe anxiety related to the violence and reminders of it....YET she also requested to continue to live next door to him even after the divorce.

That to me doesn't fit. Avoidance symptoms and flashbacks from triggers and panic attacks and fear for your life are not something that make you want to choose to live next door, share the elevator, and be in close proximity to the person who you fear will kill you and who is the root of the PTSD and your symptoms.

Nursejackie1 · 04/05/2022 23:18

@MarieIVanArkleStinks i agree with all you have said.

My husband works in domestic abuse cases and before this case is even over he’s had male abusers identifying that they are in the “Johnny Depp situation”. This is not going to help abused women at all.

Boulshired · 04/05/2022 23:22

i want to believe her, I don’t believe Depp is innocent but it is Amber that makes me not trust her. She is a walking PR disaster. Unfortunately once you uncover one lie you cannot help but question the integrity.

Midlifemusings · 04/05/2022 23:23

Nursejackie1 · 04/05/2022 23:18

@MarieIVanArkleStinks i agree with all you have said.

My husband works in domestic abuse cases and before this case is even over he’s had male abusers identifying that they are in the “Johnny Depp situation”. This is not going to help abused women at all.

Maybe it will help abused men. Which would be great. Having seen the stigma and discriminatory attitudes that society has against men as victims, this might help some people be more understanding and supportive and recognize that men can be victims.

CheekyHobson · 04/05/2022 23:23

Avoidance symptoms and flashbacks from triggers and panic attacks and fear for your life are not something that make you want to choose to live next door, share the elevator, and be in close proximity to the person who you fear will kill you and who is the root of the PTSD and your symptoms.

Trauma bonding does result in people repeatedly returning to their abusers in the hope of fixing things or trying to forge a relationship that even if it's not the one they wanted, is one they can feel okay about.

When you love someone, you can hate what they've done to you and also feel empathy for their own suffering and believe that they have an essential 'goodness' that means if they could just learn to see things differently, they'd change and things would be okay. It's one of the core traps of abusive relationships.

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2022 23:23

It really does seem as though beloved male Hollywood actors are untouchable

This is interesting. I'm beginning to think that the dreams created by the Hollywood machines are so goddamn powerful, some cannot bear to have them questioned.

These guys are presented as perfection and literally everything can be overlooked to maintain that. Even if every single thing Amber says turns out to be false, Depp is still, clearly a raging arsehole. Yet we have all these women spinning the narrative about the southern gentleman, the decent guy, the little boy lost.

The cognitive dissonance is just mind blowing

Midlifemusings · 04/05/2022 23:30

CheekyHobson · 04/05/2022 23:23

Avoidance symptoms and flashbacks from triggers and panic attacks and fear for your life are not something that make you want to choose to live next door, share the elevator, and be in close proximity to the person who you fear will kill you and who is the root of the PTSD and your symptoms.

Trauma bonding does result in people repeatedly returning to their abusers in the hope of fixing things or trying to forge a relationship that even if it's not the one they wanted, is one they can feel okay about.

When you love someone, you can hate what they've done to you and also feel empathy for their own suffering and believe that they have an essential 'goodness' that means if they could just learn to see things differently, they'd change and things would be okay. It's one of the core traps of abusive relationships.

Trauma bonding is not the same as having severe anxiety, panic attacks, and all the symptoms of PTSD from any reminder of your buser...and then saying that as long as he lets you live expense free, you won't file a restraining order.

Sorry, you can twist everything any way you want but there is still a certain amount of critical thinking and rational thought needed. The key symptom of avoidance is just that - that the fear and panic make you avoid places and people that are reminders. Avoidance in PTSD is incongruent with wanting to not avoid them and be close to them. The idea that people with PTSD who fear for their lives are desperate to return and live next door to the person / situation they think they will kill them and who causes them to have panic attacks, flashbacks, nightmares, and to experience terror... is not in the realm or range of typical responses. The psychologist testified that Amber had avoidance as a key symptom of her PTSD - that just doesn't fit with wanting to hang out in the same spaces as him.

Nursejackie1 · 04/05/2022 23:33

@Midlifemusings
Thats fine then.
Women have been abused since time began and killed at the rate of 1-3 a week in England by abusive men and only a teeny bit of progress has been made in understanding and helping women in these situations.
How many men a week are killed by women?

Abusive men often portray themselves as victims when they are the perpetrator.
This case and the overwhelming public support for the male when the female hasn’t even given all evidence yet is not going to bode well for these thousands of women in this situation.

Toxic masculinity is the real reason men who are abused don’t come forward.

Women don’t deny men can also be abused but when there’s evidence in support of the woman’s claims and the whole of society denies it blindly before the case is over then we have a very serious problem.

Let’s throw the women under the bus. As long as the men are ok and have a good excuse to fall back on when they beat the shit out of their partners

Midlifemusings · 04/05/2022 23:34

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2022 23:23

It really does seem as though beloved male Hollywood actors are untouchable

This is interesting. I'm beginning to think that the dreams created by the Hollywood machines are so goddamn powerful, some cannot bear to have them questioned.

These guys are presented as perfection and literally everything can be overlooked to maintain that. Even if every single thing Amber says turns out to be false, Depp is still, clearly a raging arsehole. Yet we have all these women spinning the narrative about the southern gentleman, the decent guy, the little boy lost.

The cognitive dissonance is just mind blowing

Where are you seeing Depp presented as perfection and as the southern gentleman?

I haven't seen that really anywhere...but I don't go on twitter. Is that where you see that?

Long before all this - JD was never perfection due to his well known substance use so I am surprised you are seeing him presented as perfection.

Nursejackie1 · 04/05/2022 23:38

@Midlifemusings there is no rule book to say that trauma cannot lead to more than one condition.
of course somebody can have PTSD and trauma binding at the same time.

Sick of women being put through trauma them blamed and labelled for their reactions which would be normal for any human being in these situations.

The labelling is often used against them by men such as Johnny Depp who sit in courts watching these women get discredited because of their normal human reactions to trauma. Oh she can’t be trusted she’s mental.. PTSD, personality disorder, depression etc. Yes caused by YOU! It’s an age old misogynistic trick and we really need to wake up to this shit.

ENoeuf · 04/05/2022 23:39

“When you have deep, deep roots in the south… you’re raised to be a southern gentleman, that is to say when chivalry was still alive and allowed,” Mr Depp responded.
“I believe I do (live up to the standards), I have certainly done my best all my life.”

jd Evidence earlier this week

MrsH1983 · 04/05/2022 23:40

ENoeuf · 04/05/2022 23:39

“When you have deep, deep roots in the south… you’re raised to be a southern gentleman, that is to say when chivalry was still alive and allowed,” Mr Depp responded.
“I believe I do (live up to the standards), I have certainly done my best all my life.”

jd Evidence earlier this week

From what I have seen, I would not consider him a gentleman.

Nursejackie1 · 04/05/2022 23:41

Midlifemusings · 04/05/2022 23:34

Where are you seeing Depp presented as perfection and as the southern gentleman?

I haven't seen that really anywhere...but I don't go on twitter. Is that where you see that?

Long before all this - JD was never perfection due to his well known substance use so I am surprised you are seeing him presented as perfection.

Show quote history

It absolutely everywhere you look. I just spent 5 minutes on Facebook and was presented will the reams of this stuff. Read the papers. Go on social media. See all the male celebrities coming out in support of this wonderful man. Better still read the comments on such posts. I can’t understand how you haven’t seen this to be honest.

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2022 23:42

Where are you seeing Depp presented as perfection and as the southern gentleman?

I didn't say perfection was a narrative being peddled about Depp. I'm saying it's part of what we're sold in terms of Hollywood stars generally. The substance abuse is relevant to this point however, as if any mere mortal was in the thick of it to the degree he is, they'd be dismissed as an utter waster. Yet for him it's just that he's a bit of a 'bad boy' 🙄

The Southern Gentleman is being referenced all over Facebook and frequently by Depp himself.

ENoeuf · 04/05/2022 23:43

Oh and Kate James the disgruntled ex pa for Amber

Depp, on the other hand, was very calm, almost shy, "like a total Southern gentleman,” James said.

ENoeuf · 04/05/2022 23:44

MrsH1983 · 04/05/2022 23:40

From what I have seen, I would not consider him a gentleman.

Show quote history

I think we agree on that! Imagine referring to yourself like that while someone is showing you texts you’ve sent about fucking your wide’s burnt corpse 🙄

Midlifemusings · 04/05/2022 23:46

Nursejackie1 · 04/05/2022 23:33

@Midlifemusings
Thats fine then.
Women have been abused since time began and killed at the rate of 1-3 a week in England by abusive men and only a teeny bit of progress has been made in understanding and helping women in these situations.
How many men a week are killed by women?

Abusive men often portray themselves as victims when they are the perpetrator.
This case and the overwhelming public support for the male when the female hasn’t even given all evidence yet is not going to bode well for these thousands of women in this situation.

Toxic masculinity is the real reason men who are abused don’t come forward.

Women don’t deny men can also be abused but when there’s evidence in support of the woman’s claims and the whole of society denies it blindly before the case is over then we have a very serious problem.

Let’s throw the women under the bus. As long as the men are ok and have a good excuse to fall back on when they beat the shit out of their partners

I have worked in mental health for years so I just dont have the view that it has to be one or the other - that both men and women can't be victims and to accept men as victims takes away from women as victims. On an individual level, sex and gender don't really come into effect when you are the one suffering at the hands or mind of someone else. Men are also victims of other men - their sex and gender doesn't negate their experience. And I also don't believe that only murder matters when it comes to abuse.

I know there is a prevaling view on here in many threads and society in general that women are nurturing, caring, and well intentioned and that if a women ever acts in a negative way it is always because there is a bad man making her act that way. I just don't believe that at all having seen many women who are abusive and unkind and not nurturing and who can also have bad intentions and want to cause harm. I do not believe that men and women are divided as good and bad along the same black and white lines that many do. Work in child protective services for awhile and it will completely change your mindset that women are all nurturing and caring and should always be believed.

I know it isn't popular in general society to say men can be victims and women can be perpetrators and many people get very angry and offended by that statement and feel personally attacked. However, their personal feelings don't change reality.

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2022 23:46

you’re raised to be a southern gentleman, that is to say when chivalry was still alive and allowed

The fact that he's identifying with this, when we know the absolutely disgusting shit that's come out of his mouth describing women (and not just Amber Heard) blows my mind totally.

Chivalry? Give me a fucking break

MrsH1983 · 04/05/2022 23:46

@ENoeuf I do agree. Just the way he talks in general. I can't stand swearing at people personally and the disrespectful way he talks to women I really don't like.

MrsH1983 · 04/05/2022 23:47

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2022 23:46

you’re raised to be a southern gentleman, that is to say when chivalry was still alive and allowed

The fact that he's identifying with this, when we know the absolutely disgusting shit that's come out of his mouth describing women (and not just Amber Heard) blows my mind totally.

Chivalry? Give me a fucking break

Completely agree. I wouldn't want to be with him.

TheKeatingFive · 04/05/2022 23:47

Imagine referring to yourself like that while someone is showing you texts you’ve sent about fucking your wide’s burnt corpse

X post. Exactly

Midlifemusings · 04/05/2022 23:52

Nursejackie1 · 04/05/2022 23:38

@Midlifemusings there is no rule book to say that trauma cannot lead to more than one condition.
of course somebody can have PTSD and trauma binding at the same time.

Sick of women being put through trauma them blamed and labelled for their reactions which would be normal for any human being in these situations.

The labelling is often used against them by men such as Johnny Depp who sit in courts watching these women get discredited because of their normal human reactions to trauma. Oh she can’t be trusted she’s mental.. PTSD, personality disorder, depression etc. Yes caused by YOU! It’s an age old misogynistic trick and we really need to wake up to this shit.

How does one have a symptom that makes them avoid people and places while actively seeking out those same people and places?

You can't both avoid and seek out at the same time.

Avoidance typically means you would not go where the person was, even take a different route to avoid seeing reminders, change your routines. How is that symptom congruent with wanting to go to the same place he lives and to want to be in a situation where you run into him.

Aspiringmatriarch · 04/05/2022 23:52

Take the psychologist testomony that Amber endured repeated violent acts that made her fear for her life and safety, and has PTSD with symptoms of avoidance, hyperreactivity, triggering flashbacks and severe anxiety related to the violence and reminders of it....YET she also requested to continue to live next door to him even after the divorce.

The penthouses were not his primary residence. And she needed somewhere to live, no?

Also, these are wealthy celebrities - especially him - so what would look like an outrageous demand in a 'normal' divorce needs to be put in that context. This is a man who was regularly spending $2million dollars a month and owns an actual island in addition to multiple other luxury properties.

Aspiringmatriarch · 04/05/2022 23:54

I know it isn't popular in general society to say men can be victims and women can be perpetrators and many people get very angry and offended by that statement and feel personally attacked.

Please give this tedious straw man a rest.

Men can be victims.

I think this is wholeheartedly accepted on this thread at least.

Midlifemusings · 04/05/2022 23:56

Nursejackie1 · 04/05/2022 23:41

It absolutely everywhere you look. I just spent 5 minutes on Facebook and was presented will the reams of this stuff. Read the papers. Go on social media. See all the male celebrities coming out in support of this wonderful man. Better still read the comments on such posts. I can’t understand how you haven’t seen this to be honest.

Show quote history

I have seen support for him but that isn't the same as seeing him as the pinnacle of perfection. There is support for both sides out there and people support in different ways for different reasons. Most posts I have seen by his supporters acknowledge he is far from perfect but think he either wasn't the initiator of the abuse or they think he was unfairly accused or that he was himself a victim of abuse.