Page 12 | Part 2 -AIBU to wonder why so many people assume Johnny Depp is the good guy and Amber Heard is the villain

StormzyinaTCup · 2022-04-30T18:14:59+00:00

Just thought I would start a follow on thread for anyone interested in the trial. I have kept it in AIBU so that it is easier for previous posters from Part 1 to find. We are halfway through and have heard JD's testimony so next week we will hear from AH.

MrsH1983 · 03/05/2022 23:25

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 03/05/2022 23:19

And I totally agree, she basically accused someone of rape and sexual assault based on the word of a woman who has actually been caught out in lies.

No, of course she didn't. I was watching. She told the court what Heard had reported to her during treatment, detailed the parameters/variables/analytical practices she consulted to carry out the evaluations on Heard and what research she was basing these on, and reported on her apparent psychological condition at the times she'd reported the various events to her as her therapist.

She was a godawful witness, IMO, and seemed to be far too invested in what should be a detached, matter-of-fact, professional relationship, but she isn't as stupid as all that.

I was formerly of the view that Depp would almost certainly lose this case. Libel trials are notoriously difficult to win, and a UK court found decisively in favour of the Sun, accepting 12 serious counts of domestic abuse against Heard. The Judgement is considered and persuasive (thanks to the PP who posted that on the last thread).

But right now, Depp's team have scored at least one major hit, which is to cast doubt on her credibility on the stand. She's proven to have lied about the donations and that could be very damning. Also, based on today's performance neither her first witness nor her legal team have done her any favours whatsoever.

The bias playing out in people's responses to this case seems to be very firmly weighted on the sex of the perpetrator. I remain just as firmly convinced that both parties in this case are abusive horrors. But what was said on that stand today was harrowing. If Depp is really guilty of even a fraction of what was detailed there, he's a psychopathic sadist. If Heard is lying about any of it, she's a monster and a serious impediment to vulnerable women needing to seek justice for their abuse.

Me? I don't know which is the case. But the reputation of both seems pretty firmly secured in the gutter for posterity. What an ugly, ugly spectacle.

I agree with most of what you have said but I do feel that the way she was delivering her testimony and how invested she was made is come across that it was her actually making the accusations. That's just my perception of it.

MrsH1983 · 03/05/2022 23:25

Flaxmeadow · 03/05/2022 23:25

Yeah we have jury's here too btw

For criminal trials yes but not civil.

MrsH1983 · 03/05/2022 23:27

Flaxmeadow · 03/05/2022 23:24

Vincent Price couldn't have put on a better act than this leading a witch hunt

She's admitted to being violent so we know that is factual. She wouldn't let him retreat from an argument. How is that ok? That's abusive.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 03/05/2022 23:28

America's systems of law are better than than here? Oh please do give over.

😂

Good one, isn't it? The US legal system is adversarial, same as the UK. The difference is that this is a country that still allows the barbarism of the death penalty, that's denying women autonomy over their own bodies and the right to abortion, that allows ropey evidence - stuff from sniffer dogs for eg. - that would be impermissible in a UK court, and lets cameras into court rooms so that serious issues relating to horrible personal affairs and the freedom of individuals can be turned into an unedifying circus for the entertainment of, well. The likes of us.

Great system or what? 😜

Flaxmeadow · 03/05/2022 23:30

MrsH1983 · 03/05/2022 23:27

She's admitted to being violent so we know that is factual. She wouldn't let him retreat from an argument. How is that ok? That's abusive.

Show quote history

Oh you mean the tapes? His tapes. His edited tapes. His version of the script. The screenplay and what not

And guess what, sometimes women who are victims of domestic violence fight back.

MrsH1983 · 03/05/2022 23:32

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 03/05/2022 23:28

America's systems of law are better than than here? Oh please do give over.

😂

Good one, isn't it? The US legal system is adversarial, same as the UK. The difference is that this is a country that still allows the barbarism of the death penalty, that's denying women autonomy over their own bodies and the right to abortion, that allows ropey evidence - stuff from sniffer dogs for eg. - that would be impermissible in a UK court, and lets cameras into court rooms so that serious issues relating to horrible personal affairs and the freedom of individuals can be turned into an unedifying circus for the entertainment of, well. The likes of us.

Great system or what? 😜

If you read what I actually wrote, it was that I think the jury system is better in America, such as the case in civil trials. We rely on 1 judge in the lower courts which I feel can sometimes be unreliable.

MrsH1983 · 03/05/2022 23:34

@Flaxmeadow you are absolutely right and I was one of them. I've been there and I did retaliate.

You are correct that we have only seen his side so far so I may yet change my viewpoint but from what I have seen so far, AH is an abuser and a very angry and aggressive person.

Flaxmeadow · 03/05/2022 23:35

I once punched a man in a night club, in front of all his freinds, humiliated him with a swift uppercut. Why? Because he was taunting me quietly, on the sly, and he'd been smashing my face in at home for years. But hey, guess i was the bad guy eh? Or maybe I just couldn't take it anymore

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 03/05/2022 23:35

If you read what I actually wrote, it was that I think the jury system is better in America, such as the case in civil trials. We rely on 1 judge in the lower courts which I feel can sometimes be unreliable.

I didn't read what you actually wrote, I was responding to a throwaway comment by another poster. My apologies.

Laaaaslalala · 03/05/2022 23:37

MrsH1983 · 03/05/2022 23:15

@Flaxmeadow I am only partway through reading the London judgment but I have always been against the idea of 1 judge deciding such things. I like the American system of using a jury. The UK judicial system is flawed, many many cases contradicting each other and within law, you can reason one way to make it go in AH favour or you can reason another way which would make it go in JDs favour. The law is so complex and from what I have personally witnessed and researched, they don't always get it right.

The use of juries is also flawed. A number of people who have no qualifications or deep understanding of law being able to convict or not on what they think the evidence means.They also will struggle to put aside their personal feelings on the people involved and past press etc.

A judge is far, far more likely to get the law right, trained to put aside personal opinions and any press that's been out before trial.

Vivi0 · 03/05/2022 23:37

Flaxmeadow · 03/05/2022 23:21

America's systems of law are better than than here? Oh please do give over

What was the point of the stories about his mother? Why was he given free reign to talk about it for so long, what seemed like a whole afternoon? What had it to do with AH

The point of the “stories” about his mother are so, so important.

It is incredibly common for individuals abused as children to find themselves in abusive relationships. This is because childhood trauma, if unresolved, is carried with us along our lifetime and we subconsciously seek out what is familiar to us and habitually play out these roles over and over.

He essentially married his mother and tolerated the abuse just like his father did. There is nothing about that that is controversial. As I said, it is incredibly commonplace.

It is also incredibly common (and understandable) for people who have had traumatic childhoods to struggle with addiction.

Flaxmeadow · 03/05/2022 23:41

All I've seen so far is AH sat bolt upright in court, staring straight ahead, in a place she was dragged to. A place, for the 2nd time, where she did not want to be. And then JD, loving every minute of it, hamming it up, over and over again. Not 'uncomfortable' at all. He is revelling in it

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 03/05/2022 23:42

Flaxmeadow · 03/05/2022 23:35

I once punched a man in a night club, in front of all his freinds, humiliated him with a swift uppercut. Why? Because he was taunting me quietly, on the sly, and he'd been smashing my face in at home for years. But hey, guess i was the bad guy eh? Or maybe I just couldn't take it anymore

It's as people say about bullies. They're the first to cry 'foul!' when their victims finally snap and give them what they deserve.

I was stalked for almost two years by an ex. I was just a kid, in my late teens, and had only dated him for a few months. He'd blacked my eye, smashed my head down a shop window, thrown more drinks over me than I could count, and on the most serious occasion, tried to run me over in his car. That was an attempt on my life. To this day I don't know why I didn't report him for that: the most my parents did was send a solicitor's letter and eventually obtain an injunction.

My situation ended the same way yours did, in a bar. I snapped completely - the only time in my life I've ever seen red mist, completely lost control of myself, and committed an act of violence of any description. I knocked him clean out cold.

I remember standing there shivering from head to foot with rage, and before a friend led me out heard a man nearby say 'get that fucking psycho away from me. I'm scared of her'. (I was 8 stone).

I was the victim. I'd had my life put directly in danger. People have no idea.

MrsH1983 · 03/05/2022 23:42

Flaxmeadow · 03/05/2022 23:35

I once punched a man in a night club, in front of all his freinds, humiliated him with a swift uppercut. Why? Because he was taunting me quietly, on the sly, and he'd been smashing my face in at home for years. But hey, guess i was the bad guy eh? Or maybe I just couldn't take it anymore

I wouldn't say you were the bad guy at all and I'm sorry you had to endure that. I threw a hairdryer at my ex in retaliation and I also had an affair to hurt him like he was hurting me.

For me personally, I can see the abusive tactics in AH what my ex used. He followed me and wouldn't allow me to retreat, always goading me, ordering me to do as he said etc. someone who wanted violence and conflict wouldn't retreat into rooms and lock doors. I don't believe they would anyway.

MrsH1983 · 03/05/2022 23:44

@Laaaaslalala perhaps a better system would be using 3 judges as opposed to 1? I know it would cost more though.

Flaxmeadow · 03/05/2022 23:45

@Vivi0
It's the first act. Its big eyed sweet amd innocent Edward Scissorhands and AH is his big bad Betty Sue mum. That's what hes doing

Flaxmeadow · 03/05/2022 23:49

'Its like making a soup, it's Pepe le Pew, it's Keith Richards, his brains are all scrambled...' aaawww sob sob sob, tortured artist ...

Anonymoussssss · 03/05/2022 23:55

I think they are both arseholes but there is something about her that I don't like. I feel that she plays games and can flutter her eyelids and get away with it.. For all the reasons that most women like her do, and have continued to do since the dawn of time..

Laaaaslalala · 03/05/2022 23:56

Flaxmeadow · 03/05/2022 23:41

All I've seen so far is AH sat bolt upright in court, staring straight ahead, in a place she was dragged to. A place, for the 2nd time, where she did not want to be. And then JD, loving every minute of it, hamming it up, over and over again. Not 'uncomfortable' at all. He is revelling in it

Agreed. His behaviour is grim. Regardless of anything else I'm boggled that Depp's supporters can't see that or excuse it, the same way they excuse his texts about Amber and Vanessa.

Laaaaslalala · 04/05/2022 00:00

MrsH1983 · 03/05/2022 23:44

@Laaaaslalala perhaps a better system would be using 3 judges as opposed to 1? I know it would cost more though.

Any idea how much a case costs? 3 judges isn't necessary. Just because people are dissatisfied that the UK case found that Depp had been abusive doesn't mean the system doesn't work. They are professionals who should be trusted to do their job.

Do you think there should be another 2 of you in your role to ensure you are doing your job correctly?

Flaxmeadow · 04/05/2022 00:04

Anonymoussssss · 03/05/2022 23:55

I think they are both arseholes but there is something about her that I don't like. I feel that she plays games and can flutter her eyelids and get away with it.. For all the reasons that most women like her do, and have continued to do since the dawn of time..

Women like her? Fluttering their eye lashes?
What do you mean exactly?

Flaxmeadow · 04/05/2022 00:08

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 03/05/2022 23:42

It's as people say about bullies. They're the first to cry 'foul!' when their victims finally snap and give them what they deserve.

I was stalked for almost two years by an ex. I was just a kid, in my late teens, and had only dated him for a few months. He'd blacked my eye, smashed my head down a shop window, thrown more drinks over me than I could count, and on the most serious occasion, tried to run me over in his car. That was an attempt on my life. To this day I don't know why I didn't report him for that: the most my parents did was send a solicitor's letter and eventually obtain an injunction.

My situation ended the same way yours did, in a bar. I snapped completely - the only time in my life I've ever seen red mist, completely lost control of myself, and committed an act of violence of any description. I knocked him clean out cold.

I remember standing there shivering from head to foot with rage, and before a friend led me out heard a man nearby say 'get that fucking psycho away from me. I'm scared of her'. (I was 8 stone).

I was the victim. I'd had my life put directly in danger. People have no idea.

Show quote history

Yup, absolutely

MrsH1983 · 04/05/2022 00:08

@Laaaaslalala like I said, I haven't finished reading the UK case yet but one person deciding things of such a nature has never sat right with me. That goes for anything whether it be social workers, police etc. Due to what I know about the legal system, I personally am not comfortable with 1 human being judging a whole case. You just have to look at the experts in this case. Both psychologists but both reached very different conclusions. Judges are no different.

Laaaaslalala · 04/05/2022 00:38

But that is why there is an appeal system (provided there is a basis in law for appeal).

The knee jerk reaction that the UK case must be wrong, that the system is flawed is just further demonstrating how crazy people have got on this case. Its clear that Depp is not pleasant himself at times, that he's got issues himself and that the unpleasantness was not only directed at Amber. It very much appears that they are both toxic, probably both have their reasons as people do and that this is an absolute circus.

MrsH1983 · 04/05/2022 00:41

Laaaaslalala · 04/05/2022 00:38

But that is why there is an appeal system (provided there is a basis in law for appeal).

The knee jerk reaction that the UK case must be wrong, that the system is flawed is just further demonstrating how crazy people have got on this case. Its clear that Depp is not pleasant himself at times, that he's got issues himself and that the unpleasantness was not only directed at Amber. It very much appears that they are both toxic, probably both have their reasons as people do and that this is an absolute circus.

You can usually only appeal if there has been an error in law or if there is fresh evidence. Someone cannot appeal because they don't agree with the Judge