Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DD accused of cheating at school

277 replies

Grizzzly · 30/04/2022 08:17

DD (11) is working on a school project with another girl in her class. The kids have been paired up by the teacher and the kids got no say on who they had to work with.

DD is quite academic and enjoys her school work and is very much enjoying this project. The other girl however is not on the same page, she isn’t interested in it and when the girls meet up after school to work on it the other girl just wants to watch YouTube videos or play games.

The bits the other girl has managed to do are (in DDs worse) “scruffy and incorrect”. DD has got frustrated and has redone the other girls work but still credited it to the other girl.

the teacher picked up on this and said she could tell DD had written what was meant to be written by the other girl. She questioned the girls, showed them the “suspicious work” and the other girl said “I didn’t do that”. DD then had to admit that she’d done it. She got into a lot of trouble and then told the teacher “well I don’t want to be held back by her, I want to win”. This got her into more trouble.

AIBU to side with DD on this? The best project wins a prize and will have their work displayed.

OP posts:
JulesRimetStillGleaming · 30/04/2022 11:27

LollyLol · 30/04/2022 11:18

Teacher to blame. Prize for a team effort is poor teaching as the competitive students will deeply resent havingweaker partners and get massively frustrated. Not sure you can do anything except explain to DD teacher is an idiot and move on.

Because that will help her learn an important life lesson.

I was the academic kid at school and I can see it in my nephew too. As soon as he started bragging at a similar age about how good he is at some things and how stupid the other kids are, I use it as an opportunity to say that everyone has strengths and things that they struggle with and while X might not be great at maths (or whatever) I bet they are good at other things that perhaps he is not. I think that's a better way than hot housing bright kids to be elitist, arrogant and superior. Unless you're hoping she gets in the Tory cabinet in a few years.

BeautifulDragon · 30/04/2022 11:29

She sounds like a brat.

No she sounds like a normal 11yo child, that wants to do well. 🙄

maddening · 30/04/2022 11:31

The teacher should not put lazy arsed students with diligent ones, it really is unfair imo.

DrRuthGalloway · 30/04/2022 11:40

FfS.

Students aged 11 don't struggle with handwriting neatly or spelling correctly because they are "Lazy arsed"

Sometimes Mumsnet really does show up the worst of middle class UK attitudes.

And they say it's neurodiverse people who have an empathy gap!

girlmom21 · 30/04/2022 11:41

DrRuthGalloway · 30/04/2022 11:40

FfS.

Students aged 11 don't struggle with handwriting neatly or spelling correctly because they are "Lazy arsed"

Sometimes Mumsnet really does show up the worst of middle class UK attitudes.

And they say it's neurodiverse people who have an empathy gap!

The girl showed up and just wanted to play games and watch YouTube. That's a lazy child.

ImAvingOops · 30/04/2022 11:42

It is important to remember that these kids are only 11. The dd was stuck between a rock and a hard place - the teacher washed her hands of it when the child tried to get help. I'd be really cross about that because it's coming across that the teacher set work and then cba to do the work themselves to ensure it went smoothly.

Did the teacher give guidance to the class on how best to work together and go through various ways they might split the work? You can't expect kids to just know these things, they have to be taught how to do it and the teacher had a responsibility to check in and see what each group is doing and to address issues raised as they progress.

Horcruxe · 30/04/2022 11:50

Yeah its crap.

There was no chance she was going to win the prize.

The teacher shouldn't have offered a prize.

But doing all the work. Deleting other people work, and giving false credits isnt right. So I'm not surprised shes been pulled up on it.

maddening · 30/04/2022 11:50

@bellebeautifu1
"Did it occur to your DD how the peer would have felt by re-doing her work? My DD is dyslexic and her self-esteem would plumment because she would not feel 'good enough' if someone else in the group took over. Many kids with less academic ability always feel worse off because they cannot perform to the standard of their peers, and your DD would have reinforced these feelings."

There is a difference between a child with different abilities working hard as part of the group and a lazy child who does sweet FA and watches you tube instead of working.

And dyslexia does not mean you can't be academic, I have dyslexia and did well and have a degree. It is possible for groups to accommodate dc of all levels and allow everyone to play to their strengths (where you have engaged students) but at 11 a teacher would need to guide the approach to ensure that everyone is accommodated appropriately where you have dc requiring additional support or reasonable adjustments, you would not expect an 11 yo to be able to assess that and implement it.

But this is not the case here, it is a lazy 11 yo who does not give a shit and had made no effort to work as a group, it is not for the ops dd to manage a lazy arse, it is bad enough dealing with such pricks at work as an adult, expecting an 11yo to do that is daft.

Vikinga · 30/04/2022 11:53

The whole point was supposed to be about working together so yabu. She didn't work as a team.

DrRuthGalloway · 30/04/2022 11:55

girlmom21 · 30/04/2022 11:41

The girl showed up and just wanted to play games and watch YouTube. That's a lazy child.

Show quote history

...or a child who doesn't understand what to do, or a child who is feeling bossed about by a dominant child who is showing their frustration, or a child who feels deskilled because of dyslexia or other learning needs, or a child who isn't used to working outside of school as they don't have a supportive family....
Laziness is NOT the only reason, or the most probable reason, why this child wasn't able to step up to work effectively with the OP's child.

Kids do well when they can.

DrRuthGalloway · 30/04/2022 11:56

And she DID do a piece of bloody work.

It just wasn't "up to standard".

ldontWanna · 30/04/2022 11:58

@DrRuthGalloway if any of those apply, then it's the teacher's fault for 1.making it a competition (prize), 2.pairing them up and 3. ignoring OP's DD when she did complain and accusing her of tale telling.

The issues you mention are difficult enough to navigate for adults ,with some training and experience. Expecting an 11 yo to not only handle and understand it but also managing it well was setting them both up to fail.

Ownedbymycats · 30/04/2022 12:01

The point of the assignment seems to have been to learn how to work with others. In the work world, not everyone has the same skills, backgrounds, interest levels etc. The real skill your daughter was meant to learn was how to encourage a peer without doing the work herself. The skill her teammate was meant to learn was how to receive feedback and help from a peer. Both have failed to learn the key skill.
beautifully summarised. My daughter has just finished her degree and group work was the most challenging part of it. There are important life skills to be learnt if the participants are open to learning them. Perhaps some reflective work would now be useful in order to reinforce learning points.It's not the Apprentice and they are only 11.

JudgeJ · 30/04/2022 12:04

Grizzzly · 30/04/2022 08:23

Yes kind of, they had to each contribute to each section of the project and highlight who had wrote what. The idea was to show they had worked together.

Show quote history

Then she has actually broken the rules. Had it been left as it was any teacher worth their salt would have realised who'd done what, they may not have won but the OP's daughter's contributions would have been recognised. Hopefully she will learn that the end doesn't always justify the means!
I used to loathe assessing coursework for this reason, it was so obvious where a parent had made very significant contributions, glad it went.

Confusion101 · 30/04/2022 12:05

To those saying they shouldn't have been paired together... What way would you divide up the class? People do realise teachers almost always pair students of different abilities and skills together to see what each can bring to the table? It's honestly day 1 of teacher training! If you are going to pair academically strong students together all the time, weaker students will never have a chance and their interest in schoolwork will only deteriorate rapidly with each group task!

DrRuthGalloway · 30/04/2022 12:08

ldontWanna · 30/04/2022 11:58

@DrRuthGalloway if any of those apply, then it's the teacher's fault for 1.making it a competition (prize), 2.pairing them up and 3. ignoring OP's DD when she did complain and accusing her of tale telling.

The issues you mention are difficult enough to navigate for adults ,with some training and experience. Expecting an 11 yo to not only handle and understand it but also managing it well was setting them both up to fail.

Not at all. It's up to the teacher to assess as they wish. If the point if the task was to assess group working that's fine.

If the OP's daughter thinks it's only worth being kind to less able students if there's something in it for her, then that's a shame.

Sirzy · 30/04/2022 12:11

She has shown that she needs to learn life skills in working with others. In life you don’t always get to work with people you like or who do things your way but that doesn’t mean you get to redo their work.

if their where serious issues along the way she should have been encouraged to talk to the teacher.

ldontWanna · 30/04/2022 12:21

Sirzy · 30/04/2022 12:11

She has shown that she needs to learn life skills in working with others. In life you don’t always get to work with people you like or who do things your way but that doesn’t mean you get to redo their work.

if their where serious issues along the way she should have been encouraged to talk to the teacher.

She did talk to the teacher. She was told off.

RaaRaaOhhhLaaaLaaa · 30/04/2022 12:24

The poor other girl whose work has been shelved as it wasn't good enough!

Your dd didn't do the required task. It's lovely for her that is academic and she finds school a breeze. Great that her handwriting isn't scruffy. However she clearly has other things that she may need to work on.

My own dd is good at everything too. She's clever, she's sporty, she's artistic and she's beautiful. When she was in year three she started to notice that other people did not have life so easy. Never in a million years would my dd have disregarded someone else's contribution like this because she has empathy and kindness.

JenniferBarkley · 30/04/2022 12:26

Butterfly44 · 30/04/2022 11:18

It's a joint project. I don't see how there's any "cheating"!

Because the aim wasn't to produce the best bit of work. The aim was to work together and make a good team. It's clear the DD understood that, because she tried to fake part of the project as being from the other child - by writing messily and making spelling mistakes.

It's dishonest and it's mean.

I mean, we're talking 11 year olds so it's not like it's a big deal or that her integrity is beyond redemption or anything. But she's very much in the wrong here and needs to understand why.

Discovereads · 30/04/2022 12:28

If the OP's daughter thinks it's only worth being kind to less able students if there's something in it for her, then that's a shame.

Theres no evidence of this whatsoever. The other student refused to work during group meetings and watched YouTube videos and played games on her phone. That’s not the actions of a “less able” student.

ldontWanna · 30/04/2022 12:31

Discovereads · 30/04/2022 12:28

If the OP's daughter thinks it's only worth being kind to less able students if there's something in it for her, then that's a shame.

Theres no evidence of this whatsoever. The other student refused to work during group meetings and watched YouTube videos and played games on her phone. That’s not the actions of a “less able” student.

They could be. Overwhelm, shame,inability to do/cope with/understand the work , etc. can often look like disinterest.

However like I said before, an 11 shouldn't be expected to navigate,solve or manage these issues.

DrRuthGalloway · 30/04/2022 12:33

Discovereads · 30/04/2022 12:28

If the OP's daughter thinks it's only worth being kind to less able students if there's something in it for her, then that's a shame.

Theres no evidence of this whatsoever. The other student refused to work during group meetings and watched YouTube videos and played games on her phone. That’s not the actions of a “less able” student.

Of course there's evidence. The work the other child produced was of lower quality. It was shorter, it was poorly spelled with incorrect parts and the handwriting was poor.

If the OP's child was genuinely just struggling to get the other child to participate, and that was the sole issue, then the other child did in fact participate and her contribution should have been added to the project as is . The teacher isn't an idiot, he or she will be aware of the standards of work different children can produce.

The OP's child judged that contribution as inferior and attempted to cheat her way to a prize with no consideration of the other girl's feelings.

JenniferBarkley · 30/04/2022 12:36

Discovereads · 30/04/2022 12:28

If the OP's daughter thinks it's only worth being kind to less able students if there's something in it for her, then that's a shame.

Theres no evidence of this whatsoever. The other student refused to work during group meetings and watched YouTube videos and played games on her phone. That’s not the actions of a “less able” student.

I'm terrible at sport, don't enjoy it, not fit or a natural athlete. If I joined a running club and was assigned a mentor (say), I would respond well to gentle encouragement. If my mentor just got annoyed that I couldn't run a marathon on day 1 and showed her frustration, I would likely lose interest and go on my phone and never come back.

The stronger student was supposed to encourage and help the weaker student.

It's ok that the DD wasn't good at this - she's 11 and lots of adults struggle with it. But she needs to understand that faking the work, and especially faking bad handwriting and spelling, was a really really bad way to handle it.

savoycabbage · 30/04/2022 12:40

AIBU to side with DD on this? The best project wins a prize and will have their work displayed.
Well, it depends what you want out of life.

I'd say it's quite obvious she's not going to win and have her work displayed though.