DD accused of cheating at school

[Grizzzly]

DD (11) is working on a school project with another girl in her class. The kids have been paired up by the teacher and the kids got no say on who they had to work with.

DD is quite academic and enjoys her school work and is very much enjoying this project. The other girl however is not on the same page, she isn’t interested in it and when the girls meet up after school to work on it the other girl just wants to watch YouTube videos or play games.

The bits the other girl has managed to do are (in DDs worse) “scruffy and incorrect”. DD has got frustrated and has redone the other girls work but still credited it to the other girl.

the teacher picked up on this and said she could tell DD had written what was meant to be written by the other girl. She questioned the girls, showed them the “suspicious work” and the other girl said “I didn’t do that”. DD then had to admit that she’d done it. She got into a lot of trouble and then told the teacher “well I don’t want to be held back by her, I want to win”. This got her into more trouble.

AIBU to side with DD on this? The best project wins a prize and will have their work displayed.

Welcome to the world of project management.
You see this a lot in life. One or two people in the group doing all the work and everyone else coasting. It’s often women as well. I’ve done plenty of training courses with men where they sit back and let the women do all the actual work then expect to do the presentation at the end and get all the credit.
might be a good time to talk to your daughter about the point of the exercise, and asserting herself.
But she’s only young, I can understand why she did it. It’s hard for her to see beyond the end rest and there definitely shouldn’t have been a prize.

Presumably part of the task was team work. If Dd and other dc agreed to play to their strengths and Dd do the writing and other dc do research etc that would be working together but your dc totally undermined the other girl’s efforts, which is outrageous but you want to support that poor attitude.

Your DD thought she was doing the right thing correcting this girls work but apparently she wasnt. I don't think it is your DDs fault at all. Go and see the teacher. I blame the teacher for this. It sounds ill thought out and not explained properly to the class. It certainly is not cheating. I would be furious too.

She was knowingly and secretly dishonest, passing off her "superior " work as that of another child, dumbing it down a bit to make it less obvious, because she judged another child's work to be lacking.

There is all sorts of wrong in there.
"Cheating" doesn't really cover it to be honest.

Re-read your OP. Does sound like your DD was out of order if they were told not to do this. And she did it becsuse she wanted to win.

I am pretty sure in a work context you do not actually present any sort of work where one page is clearly shoddy and wrong and just say THIS IS JEFFS BIT and expect that to be fine.

Nope, someone (not Jeff) would rewrite it to correct errors and match the style of the rest.

So i don't know what this exercise was supposed to teach really.

YANBU
What your DD did was not cheating unless by any sensible definition.

The blame for all this falls entirely on the teacher for not being clear about the group project rules and grading. Because your DD would never have edited and polished her team mates work if she knew it had to be individual contributions that are graded separately with no one allowed to do any editing or consolidation of contributions.

If she had known this, she would have done her bit and not worried about her team mates bit. Her doing that action means she was under the impression that it was a group project where one grade is given to all members of the group. An impression she would have gotten from the teacher.

This is the teachers fault, not your DDs. Your DD should not be punished at all for doing good work to a high standard and then going above and beyond to ensure the project as a whole was to a high standard.

If DD thought she was doing the right thing then why did she try to change her handwriting and deliberately put in spelling mistakes?

Yes slashlover. I totally agree. Missed the bit about the changed handwriting and deliberate spelling mistakes. Sorry. That was deception.

But they hadn't worked together, your dd did it all and refused to allow the other girl chance to hand her bit in. Therefore she doesn't deserve the prize and a valuable lesson has been learnt in not thinking you can always takeover.

Your post about the lengths to which she went is really bad OP. It demonstrates that your DD fully understood the aim of the project, that it wasn't just about the final output. And she still lied and cheated, because prize.

I'd be having a very stern chat about the importance of honesty and integrity - but also about being a good loser and not being distracted from doing the right thing by shiny baubles.

I'd be very very disappointed in her tbh.

I learned this one in y8. Was put into a totally unworkable group that didn't want to do anything, and ended up just doing my own project that matched the better groups' output. I ended up with half-marks. Full marks for the actual outcomes, zero marks for group work. Transparent but a tad unfair for being put in an unworkable group that was doomed to fail and inevitably score poorly and never be able to access a decent score.

The teacher has not set the task up well and given mixed messages. Motivated children will prioritise the prize above "fair play" that will hold them back. The scoring should reflect the group effort and that of the individual. If a prize was involved, it should have been for the most consistent group contributions, not overall outcome.

Accusations of "cheating" in a degree in this situation is fair enough. In y7 where children are quite early at this form of collaborative working (and currently behind after losing a chunk of y5/6), it is a harsh accusation and can often be more harmful than helpful if it causes resentment or deters future effort (At that age, I'd certainly have been deterred from bothering to work for that teacher again if it only resulted in a bollocking anyway)

It would be interesting to know what the feedback was for the child who put in a minimal effort anyway because they're not blameless either.

@DrBlackbird

All of Daisy Christodoulou’s research suggests that group projects etc. are weak methods of cementing knowledge and understanding:

daisychristodoulou.com/2013/06/myth-six-projects-and-activities-are-the-best-way-to-learn/

I am afraid your DD comes across as pretty unattractive in this particular situation.

She didn't care about the other girl at all.

Imagine if this were the other way around.
"My DD isn't that clever, but she's basically a good kid. She has been paired up with a really smart kid for a project. The really smart kid has completely taken over. When they get together, she bosses my daughter about and makes her feel bad so my daughter has been pretty unmotivated but she did manage to do the section she was allocated. This girl said it was wrong and got rid of my daughter's contribution. Then to make matters worse she completely humiliated my daughter by redoing it herself, with some fake spelling mistakes. My daughter felt completely rubbished. The teacher had a word with them and she actually said she didn't want my daughter holding her back! My daughter is humiliated, embarrassed and has been made to feel completely inadequate by this other child."

Your daughter may be smart, but she has poor group working skills and is prepared to ride roughshod over other people's feelings in order to win. I also have a clever 11 year old and whilst she may have been frustrated about this situation, I am glad to say there's no way in hell she would completely discount her peer's feelings in this way. I just asked my DD what she would do and she said she would work with the girl to correct some of the mistakes. She wouldn't rewrite it "because that's mean".

Because she tried to tell the teacher that her partner wasn’t doing the work to get guidance and was accused of lying by the teacher. This all goes back to the teacher imho.

She didn't care about the other girl at all.

And the other girl didn't care about her. If she'd have done a full page of writing and shown an interest in the project it could be argued that OP's DD was being nasty. Everyone's saying she ignored the brief but the other girl didn't do the work...

I think you've handled it brilliantly, OP. You've highlighted why what she did is deemed as wrong but acknowledged all the emotional factors involved.

I was like your DD at school. These sorts of projects are deeply unfair. If your DD was marked solely on her own work but the presentation was done together then fine. Pairing your DD with someone unmotivated is essentially telling her from the beginning that she cannot win the prize. If this is a form of assessment then the only reward should be the grading of your own work.

And what subject is this? Why is it a geography or English teacher's place to "assess teamwork"? Anyone who says "you have to learn to work together" forgets the lack of power children hold. As adults in a workplace there are policies and procedures for what to do when a colleague doesn't pick up the slack and if you don't cover for them the consequences are all theirs. This 11yr old is told off for telling tales and loses out on the opportunity to win a prize. She's not learned anything about teamwork except that it ain't worth it.

We don't know all the details here. We don't know the ability of the other girl. Perhaps her "scruffy and incorrect" work was working to the best of her ability! Which the teacher obviously knew because she spotted the work handed up wasn't her work. We also don't know how much info the teacher gave them about the task.

From the details given, we know the teacher said it was group work and working together was important. The OPs DD did not work together with the other student, as she changed the work she had submitted for her own agenda to try and win! Not nice.

This is appalling teaching. I teach secondary and we would never base our assessments on group work, it’s outdated and unfair

Yes I was going to say I've never been aware of my Year 13 and 10 being assessed in that way. It's always been on their own work.

This has had made me properly laugh. Jeff is such a liability.

The op said The other girl however is not on the same page, she isn’t interested in it and when the girls meet up after school to work on it the other girl just wants to watch YouTube videos or play games. so we do know she wasn't working to the best of her ability

I'd be quite mad if someone tampered with my part of a school project.

I echo what others have said on here - the whole project objective was probably to work together - your dd didnt and the proceeded to be dishonest about it - so she could win. Also - I don’t really get the ‘she’s just 11’ argument. Surely at 11 she should know what she was doing was a bit wrong? Either way, i feel sorry for her that she’s got in trouble, but this one I think is a lesson for her. I’m sorry she’s upset about this tho op.

My dd has autism and hates school so she would have been the 'scruffy, lazy, unmotivated' child in this situation. To be honest OP your child sounds very bossy but not to worry as one poster said she will 'get far in life'. Maybe spare a thought for those that won't.

The OPs DD did not work together with the other student,

Which is the fault of the other girl because every time they met she refused to work with the OPs DD and simply watched Youtube videos or played games. The OPs DD then told the teacher, but the teacher accused her of lying about the other girl. The OPs DD was seriously let down by the teacher in this. It is seriously unfair to expect a child to get another child to do their best work. The fact the teacher noticed the work was above the standard the other child usually does indicates not even adults (teacher or parents) can get the other child to do schoolwork So it is unrealistic and grossly unfair to expect the OPs DD to have been able to get the other child to work with her.