To think my DC is too clever for state secondary school?

[GeniusCreator]

DC is Yr7. Top of year according to what I’ve been told. Read the full series of Harry Potter books by 7 years old. Excels in STEM subjects. Spends ages at home researching science stuff like quantum field theory and nuclear fusion/fission and enjoys it! Designs his own websites and writes his own code for his own games. Primary school were always pretty amazed by him. Secondary school have picked up on him now and have said they’ve never seen anything like him.

He’s already mentioning being a bit bored in class. We live in what could be described as a deprived town and are not well off, no family to help out, so would never be able to get him into a private school. I did check with the private school in the next town but there are no scholarships available.

WIBU to try to crowdfund for private school fees?

He needs a much higher level curriculum than the state school one to continue stretching him. I honestly think he’s destined for amazing things.

<only slightly light hearted>

Why would he be?

Hi OP,
I just wanted to say think very carefully before moving your son up a year. I wouldn't.
Your son is very clever but importantly he is happy and has friends. That might not be the case if you change his year. Being clever doesn't stop him from wanting a peer group/friends.
...and where does it end? Will he go to uni early and not be able to go out with the others as he is only 17? Or do you plan for him to take a year out? Why not just let him enjoy his schooling. The social side is just as important as academic. A genius child with anxiety/depression will struggle to thrive. Keep things in perspective.

We home educate, and I know a few kids like your son, including the former best friend of one of my DCs. Such children often thrive out of school. They have time to do their own thing. You can get them together with people who know about the stuff which interests them. You don't necessarily have to "teach" them as such. You can instead just help them find the resources they need, and stand back while they learn under their own steam. They go at their own speed and can learn about a wide range of subjects in as much depth as they want.

Qualifications can be done at whatever age they are ready. They can mix and match GCSEs, A levels, and university courses. Open University will accept under-16s if it is clear they are ready, though funding can be a challenge since they aren't old enough to consent to student loans.

It's also good for sociable kids. They they can mix with many different people (kids and adults) in various settings, and don't have to spend most of their time with a fixed "peer group" at school.

That might be an option to consider.

Had to name change, sorry. @GeniusCreator my son actually is exceptional. I suspected he might be age 8 when he was so far ahead of everyone in his class at Maths that his state primary got a secondary maths teacher to come and do some sessions 'for fun'. The age 11 when he started doing A level Maths problems again 'for fun'. I could go on with more examples, Maths Olympiad etc.

He went to a perfectly ordinary state school, and I have to say the school were extremely supportive of him even though they could not do much outside the curriculum. He was happy.

He is now at Oxford and still fairly exceptional (top 10% of his year group) and a scholar.

Anyway, if he goes to private school he will probably be disadvantaged in Oxbridge admissions if MN were to be believed. Send him to private school if you want, but most importantly, send him somewhere he will be happy.

OP was/is he on the Gifted & Talented scheme at school? DH is very bright, (IQ 150), he was put on G&T for maths at school which gave him access to extra lessons on a Sat morning to stretch him, which worked well for him. He didn't go to private school but still managed to do perfectly well for himself - although chose to head into the City at 18 rather than go to University.

🤢not envy

Absolutely no disrespect (indeed masses of respect!) for your DS exceptionalson but one thing I do think is true is that certainly at KS1, 2 and 3, it's almost always the case that DC who are very capable at maths and science are marked out as exceptional far more often than those with a real gift elsewhere in the curriculum. At our school - a superselective grammar - it was always, without exception, the parents of the mathsy DC who had had them pushed them up at primary school or (less often) wanted them accelerated at the grammar. It's a very skewed notion of giftedness, although there's the issue that talent in other areas such as literature and humanities needs maturity in a way that maths doesn't. Still, the stronger argument is that mathematicians shouldn't be put into a special funnel to the detriment of their development in other areas of the curriculum and, more importantly, to the detriment of their social well being.

One boy at our school came top of his year at Oxford in Maths not too many years ago having met with some derision when he got his Oxford offer on the grounds that he was totally and utterly normal socially, played a lot of football, went to the pub etc. In his natural cohort at school and not hot housed at all.

My youngest is certainly showing a huge interest in maths (although is not remotely genius level - she just clearly loves numbers and the patterns they make) and I’ve been depressed already by comments about how she can’t be good at maths as she’s ‘such a normal little girl’. Her brother with ASD on the other hand, who shows no real sign to me of being particularly interested in maths, has been described as ‘obviously good’ at them.

Absolutely not a comment on your own DS exceptionalson, merely a comment to OP about pressure and moving up a cohort.

Doubleraspberry yes absolutely. The special treatment of maths talent isn't great for all sorts of reasons, not least the stereotyping.

My mother was friends with the ex-wife of Ruth Lawrence’s father, who left him when he tried to do what he eventually did with her with their children. She was a teacher and so horrified by the whole thing.

My mother was friends with the ex-wife of Ruth Lawrence’s father, who left him when he tried to do what he eventually did with her with their children. She was a teacher and so horrified by the whole thing.

Absolutely no-one is going to crowdfund some strangers' little genius, just because his mummy thinks he's gifted.
If he's as bright as you say, a bright and motivated kid will do well anywhere.

TBH, in Year 7, it's more important that he's fitting in socially and making friends, than setting the academic world alight. There will be time for that later. Is he sitting around at home, playing with code and reading about nuclear physics, because ACTUALLY he hasn't got any friends/social skills?

@Diverseopinions I too used to get a train home from work at the same time as a bunch of private school teenagers.

Their favourite - main - quite possibly only topic of conversation was about Who Is Gay. Quite frankly they were obsessed. (Obvious conclusions are obvious.)

My IQ has also been assessed (twice, by clinical psychologists) at 155. I am not and never was a prodigy, though I did read HP level books at the same age as OP's DS. I'm not anything special now - decent job, decent life, am happy and that will do.

DD1 had a peer at school who ticked all the same boxes - and he did exceedingly well at their ordinary state school, got a swathe of 9s and As, all A at A level, got into Oxbridge to study some kind of physics. So a state school absolutely can deliver that kind of education. Ours provided opportunities for all kinds of enrichment, and I definitely don't live in a wealthy, leafy town.

So maybe take a step back and see what you can do locally.

BTW I agree that HP is rubbish to read out loud, it isn't written for it. Terry Pratchett's Discworld books on the other hand are perfect read aloud material and also offer a lot of points for debate around major issues as well as being excellent entertainment.

I do get annoyed with this endless talk of how private schools are better! On the face of it the headlines are ‘private schools get better results’ private schools have smaller classes so better outcomes’ so people take this as gospel and seem to think that anyone going to private school is suddenly going to do better and that no-one can do well at state.

you really have to drill down into the data and supporting facts.

Private schools have better results mainly because- -

• they have entrance exams so only the top scholars are actually going to be allowed in


• they weed out the lesser able eg discourage them from staying for 6th form


• people who can afford to send to private are generally more academically able themselves and value education so there is more support at home


• these families can also afford tutors etc


• they can also afford holidays to cultural places, lots of extra curricular activities etc

If the above criteria was used to filter all state school children I doubt there would be much difference in results!

BrieAndChilli it's ludicrous to generalise about all independents. The idea that all only admit 'top scholars' is laughable. Most - including quite decent named ones - will let anyone in who can pay the fees. The top schools filter more stringently its fair to say and are bursting with resources to employ top quality teaching staff and provide all sorts of other facilities and opportunities which enhance learning and just aren't possible in the state sector. But those schools are a tiny minority. There is literally no real filter at most indepndents; the entrance test is to delude parents that their DC is above average academically (and presumably therefore worth investing large fees in, for often very dubious quality teaching). The real filter is in weeding out the common or poor people, but that is not co -terminous with sowing in talent.

I have interviewed dozens and dozens of applicants for positions from NQT to HT at a superselective grammar over the years and have been able to compare the quality of applicants from all sectors. I've been shocked a lot of the time I have to say, but the stand out terribles were those from the independent sector who banged on about 'scholars' dinners etc yet couldn't teach for toffee and showed no decent leadership skills. Had they not been sent packing they'd have been eaten alive at our school - wouldn't have lasted a week.

The vast majority of independent schools do not sift by ability in academia but in ability to pay. The ones that do sift by ability do it because they have a waiting list as long as your arm ( I live a mile from Repton and a friend works there, they can choose....St Marys and St Anns in Abbots Bromley cannot).

An awful lot of "middling" parents sacrifice the holidays, the cars, the big house etc in order to fund private education in the (erroneous) belief that they are getting a better education for their child/ren. Sadly parents who care about education so much would do better spending their money living near to a good state and supporting their kids learning with trips abroad, days out to museums etc than sacrificing all of that for an expensive school of dubious quality.

Low income kids who become good income parents fall for the belief that money = quality so truly think that they are doing the best for their kids when in reality it is only the school that benefits.

Entrance exams are simply used to con parents into believing that their kids are clever enough for private when all the school really wants to know is whether the parents can afford the fees. For the really crap independents, a very intelligent child will get a full scholarship simply to keep the schools results high.

I think in London the entrance exams are used to get the most academic - since if the league tables look good, more parents will send their kids there, and more prestigious parents ( as the schools see it).

Looking at what BrieandChilli rightly says, above,...it isn't the quality of the teaching which makes the difference ( at all) in private schools. I also think these schools set a ton of homework and expect the parents to explain it/ do it, and all the school does is shame the kids into not coming bottom. But if OP child is really, really brainy and only wants to talk about physics and other modern world conundrums, he'll be vastly more at home with kids whose dad's talk about that stuff and they can replicate some of it, even if they themselves don't understand it.

I have been horrified to learn that state schools do ranking tests and let the kids know where they are in relation to their peers. I think that is disgusting and reflects on the root cause of many of our country's problems, or indeed civilization's, that we seem only capable of progressing via a process of dichotomy ( attachment parenting one decade and Gina Ford the next. Autism isn't the fault of parents for 2 decades/ autism might be down to environment for the next decade). We have to go back to the 50s, 40s, 30s and ridiculous uniform rules and walking in the corridor rules and not going to the loo except at break rules, because nobody is original enough to come up with innovative and useful initiatives to help kids be happy in school and to learn.

Ideally, a billionaire philanthropist would set up a school - free of charge - for geniuses from all backgrounds ( what a grammar is I suppose, but more academic) and OP son could go there with a range of peers from all sorts of backgrounds.

Maybe write to Elon Musk, OP, and suggests he does it...or sponsors your son.

Sounds like he is HLP, high learning potential. There is an organisation to support kids like this called Potential Plus. Have a look at their website. There is also a very good facebook group.

I have 2 HLP kids, we tried the private school route and it was a shitshow. Private does NOT mean better necessarily in any sense. Some schools are good at accommodating highly intelligent kids and some aren't and that bears no relation to private/state.

Sounds like your son is doing well socially and academically which is great. Potential Plus can help you understand what support options there are. Acceleration is one option if it would work for your son and school are agreeable. Good luck.

Where there is a lot of competition the entrance exams (which you have to pay for) are on academic ability they have a huge choice to pick from so it will pass at a higher level and the children that they feel fit it (sporty, arty, siblings, have the right outlook, just seem like a X school pupil)

the point I was making that if all children had the input that children who are at prep schools or feeder school with all the extra tuition (that few admit to their child having) many many children would reach the academic standard of private schools

with money there is the extra support needed if a child isn’t quite reaching the standard required

private schools will get better results because of that not because all the children who attend are naturally academically gifted

Sounds no different to my son and his friends.

Coding one's own games us simple these days due to the tools available but do call up Blizzard if he's actually cracked Unity, Blender and perhaps launched a couple of indie titles with an enthusiastic playerbase. Making colours go beep boop isn't quite up to scratch.

Literacy among children has been rather high for decades, and that you're astounded a child can read some simple children's books is really quite blinkered. 8 year olds read them. And younger.

We send ours to a normal school so he learns not to be a pretentious, patronising bellend.

I was often told DD was top of the class. One of A Level science teachers said she was best student she had ever had.