To think my DC is too clever for state secondary school?

[GeniusCreator]

DC is Yr7. Top of year according to what I’ve been told. Read the full series of Harry Potter books by 7 years old. Excels in STEM subjects. Spends ages at home researching science stuff like quantum field theory and nuclear fusion/fission and enjoys it! Designs his own websites and writes his own code for his own games. Primary school were always pretty amazed by him. Secondary school have picked up on him now and have said they’ve never seen anything like him.

He’s already mentioning being a bit bored in class. We live in what could be described as a deprived town and are not well off, no family to help out, so would never be able to get him into a private school. I did check with the private school in the next town but there are no scholarships available.

WIBU to try to crowdfund for private school fees?

He needs a much higher level curriculum than the state school one to continue stretching him. I honestly think he’s destined for amazing things.

<only slightly light hearted>

How can you be sure that he will get a better education in a private school?

Private schools are not for gifted children. They're for parents with money.

That's the only difference.

I have eight really bright kids myself (as in, all went or go to Oxford, so judged by that score rather than genius score) and always vowed that I would never agree to them being moved up a year. I've seen it a number of times at our school, where parents insisted that a DC is far too bright for its natural cohort. It more often than not didn't end well. The HT wasn't keen but some parents just insist and take up such a disproportionate amount of the HT's time that it makes sense to just say yes to the request, especially if they're already a year ahead at primary. At least then there isn't the social dislocation of suddenly appearing in a new cohort where friendships are already settled (boys more accepting of new faces generally but then there's the whole sport thing going on which can mean that smaller boys are sidelined).

YABU. A friend of mine was very intelligent and went to the local state school. He was the kind person who put his hand up in class and told the teacher if he thought they were wrong and enjoyed doing puzzles upside down so he couldn’t see the picture to provide a greater challenge. He went to university, discovered alcohol and scraped his degree. Having a degree got him his first interview but what he had done in extracurricular activities got him the job. They didn’t like the options for rector in their last year at university and decided they wanted someone totally different. He was the only one brave enough to write the letter and ask the man they wanted for rector if he would consider it. The man accepted the nomination and so my pal and his friends ran this person’s campaign for rector and he won by a landslide and my friend got his first job as a statistician at a well known bank. Now he’s a stockbroker analyst with a six figure salary. See if there are extra curricular activities that may suit your son as extras can be important too.

Plenty of bright children thrive in state schools, it does, as it would in a private school, require perhaps additional input from parents outside of school. Private schools aren't necessarily more suited by default, but the smaller class sizes and greater autonomy over teaching might- but if you cannot afford it then realistically it's working with school on how best to support and nurture his learning, not forgetting other elements of school and being with his peers are important. Obviously whatever you have been doing up to now and state primary have been doing the right things.

I had one who was superbright at school. Tagged as such by the school by the end of P1 and did all kinds of extra things and 11gcses all A* star and 4 alevels again A* star.

They did a degree and came out with a first with no effort.

Socially they have challenges and they just don't "get" people in the way their much less bright younger sibling does.

I know which one is going further in life and it isn't the super bright one.

I'd rather they were mediocre and had the ability to get on with people and have friends and a social life.

With my children, I did yes. We also watched the films and had long detailed discussions about the differences from the books and lots of discussions about the line of ownership of the elder wand. It definitely takes a bright child to be able to do that at that age but that still doesn't make them a genius. From my experience working as a TA in primary, I'd say that there would be 1 or 2 in most classes at that level at that age.

If the school have picked up on how bright he is and are putting him in presentations with older kids, then I'm sure they will help him to grow. If he is doing well in maths and science then could you get him some more advanced books for those and see if he can work from those in some of his maths and science lessons? There are other lessons he will learn at a regular pace in, such as geography history art etc.

Are you going to mention how you get out of puff at the end of a page of Harry Potter when you ask about having him put up a year?

Lord, there is so much misinformation on this thread. Just a few things which might actually be helpful to OP/someone else.

There is no such thing as a full scholarship in private schools any more. They only cover 15% max of the fees. What is then available, for the right child, is a bursary, but these are MASSIVELY means tested to weed out the sharp-elbowed middle classes.

Most schools are now very reluctant, for a whole raft of reasons, to put a child up a year. It did happen in the past, yes, but is v rare now. It's not an ideal solution, that's why. Going up to different classes for particular subjects tends to be what is done.

"No teacher has ever said my child/any child is top of the year". No but they may well say things like, most able in the cohort, one of the brightest children we have had in the school/unusual/exceptional. If your child is...

"no child refuses school because they are clever". This is total bullshit. Go to the Parenting High Potential FB group referenced above, it is stuffed to the gills with children who are now HE'd because they hated school. Some of them were school refusers, some were pulled out earlier. Just because they don't enter the system, doesn't meant they don't exist.

Private schools don't provide any different academics. Also nonsense. Some don't but some do. Yes they all sit the same GCSEs, but what they are taught can be very different - and they do provide extension for the most able, particularly in Maths where there is Further maths GCSE for the top set and entry into Maths Olympiads.

How do you tell a genius? Well plenty of these kids get investigated by schools/get Ed psych tested/whatever. Aptitude and achievement tests are part of that. If your child is working at 4-5 years above the year group average without being taught, you can conclude that they are beyond just being a bright kid. You may even get a number, and the recommendations at certain levels of the WISC tests include 'school may not work for this child'.

Finally, don't call bullshit on the achievements of the OP's child. A child I know was reading Harry Potter at the end of reception and did a presentation on Quantum Physics in Yr5 of primary school. Her parents had to teach themselves this to help. There isn't a finite sum of intelligence, so just because these children exist it doesn't make your child more stupid. And in fact many of the parents with kids like this find the whole experience really difficult.

Let's not have a go at the child. He had not posted here. And he's a child.

Oh one more piece of misinformation. Top level universities - particularly for maths and science - do not give a flying fig about extra-curriculars. They do want to see an interest in the subject above and beyond A level, in reading or taking part in events, or programming, or whatever. Grade 5 piano, though, totally irrelevant

@BeachMustHave

i have sent you a PM

"And in fact many of the parents with kids like this find the whole experience really difficult.

Having had a child working 8 years above level and one with a learning disability, I can tell you, the experience of having one above level is way easier than the latter. For me anyway. Definitely for the poor child.

Private schools are not for gifted children. They're for parents with money

in general, yes. But they are able to provide much more for gifted children due to the smaller class size and the fact that parents are generally allowed a bit more of a “say” in what happens re their child.

Yes I am sure that no one would deny that, but I think having a more average child is easier than both.

This is so true. A hard-working "average" child will always do well in life. Those who do well academically with little effort may not. And I say that as a parent of the latter.

OP - My children, especially my eldest, are very bright (albeit I wouldn't call them geniuses). I made sure they got into the most academic local (state) secondary school but didn't push them beyond that. I have focussed on making sure they have a life outside of academia and friendships outside of school. If they are already very bright then they don't really need pushing more in that direction, they need stretching in other areas instead. None of mine are gifted at sports but they have all taken part in sports and competed. They have learned musical instruments. One learnt another language outside of school. One has got into gaming and coding at home.

IMO the most important things children need to learn are how to work hard and how to keep going when things get difficult. These are both difficult lessons to learn for children who are very bright. It's important for them to find other avenues to learn those things.

It is lovely to have a very bright child, and it can be exciting, but please don't make the mistake of thinking that's the only thing about them that matters.

Not all independent schools by any means are very strong academically - only the ones that select by entrance exams, often with an interview too, if the exam results were up to a certain standard.

However plenty of schools will take virtually anyone whose parents can pay the fees.

Hi, OP -

I have got to know a number of uni students similar to your DS in my role as their personal tutor. (Each undergraduate is assigned to a member of academic staff as PT. The PT oversees their studies and is the first port of call for pastoral care.)

I think you are getting a bit of a hard time when you just want the best for your DS and don’t really know how to go about that, but I also think you need to slow down.

First, your DS does sound unusual and that’s wonderful. Of course you are happy and proud. But it is really too soon to know to what degree he is exceptional. (He certainly sounds intelligent and quite possibly gifted in the technical meaning of the term.) Also, the university and postgraduate trajectories of young geniuses go every which way.

Why not ask him about his educational preferences? You have some good suggestions of boarding schools that offer scholarships above. (BTW Eton is not particularly noted for the physical sciences.) Boarding suits some children whilst others are homebodies. Protecting his mental healthis the top priority.

I saw two yellow flags in your posts. The less important us that he is trying to share his science interests over WhatsApp and the other children are just baffled. If this is persisting, it may speak to an issue reading social cues. The more important is your description of how he took over a science presentation from, I think, Y10-11 children. I guess that was meant to illustrate his advanced knowledge. But 3-4 years is not that exceptional in my circles and what it sounded like to me was that he perhaps crowded out the others with his enthusiasm - a sign of social immaturity. Adults who reward this behaviour are ultimately doing your DS no favours, and I speak from personal experience there.

All of this suggests that connecting with a group of intellectual peers around his own age would be a great thing. A maths or science summer camp, maths circle, public lectures, online activities - whatever you can find. These children thrive on mutual support

I know this isn’t easy. It will help if you can develop a stance of appreciating him without holding any expectations for what he will become. Older children are very quick to perceive pressure when their parents let it be known that they are capable of great things and the mental health consequences at university can be severe.

So you think your child is super bright, maybe you are right, maybe you are delusional but you seriously think that strangers should fund the education you would prefer for your child? If it is that important to you do what anyone else desperate for something they cannot afford does, work three jobs, get a second mortgage on your house (if you have one), beg or borrow from friends but remember, to you he is amazing (and that of course is only right), to the rest of the world he is just another kid.

I am, I suppose, quite clever, although far from a genius: I was, indeed, top of my class in (state) secondary school, and, yes I went to Oxford, and, yes I have various degrees including a doctorate. And all the rest of the academic stuff, books, research papers, etc.

(I would be interested, OP, to see what 'research' your son is pursuing in quantum field theory. Perhaps you are over-egging this particular pudding just a little? Reading Wikis or Quora is not really research.)

My children are clever: all PhDs, some academic jobs, some not; successful in many ways, but, well, phew, no genius there.

And now I have some really clever grandchildren. Is a six-year-old who reads Einstein as well as Rowling and Tolkein (and Shakespeare) a genius? (Others, well, reading and writing in several languages aged eight, so on.)

No, far too early to say.

I did not go to private school. I did not send my children to private schools. I do not advise that my grandchildren go to private schools.

British state education is far from perfect: classes too big, too much rote learning, no real foreign-language teaching, unqualified maths teachers (!), SATs (urgh!), OFSTED (aargh!), and so on. But British private education is much worse, despite smaller classes etc., etc. Trust me.

In the normal run of life, of course I have been close to many products of (the more expensive end of ) UK private education. Close up, as it were, these people, however clever they may be, are for the most part hugely unimpressive, intellectually, emotionally, psychologically. This is true whatever their political leanings or general ethical views. Moreover, a significant proportion of them, when push comes to shove, are aware of their failings ... and mostly, again in my experience, these aware people blame their education. (Of course there are also the 'Never did me any harm!' people too. Self-awareness is too often too hard-gained here as elsewhere.)

So, in short, my advice is, send your clever child to the best state school in your neighbourhood. Encourage him or her to read books, write poetry and stories, talk, play, make friends, code, visit museums and galleries, make music, engage in sport ... all the usual for the mens sana in corpore sano that private schools so spectacularly fail to accomplish in their alumni.

Your child, if he is as clever as you think, will thank you for your choice. Such has been my experience, anyway.

My two eldest are very bright and went through the state school system. My eldest was really good and science and maths and the school supported him to go his GCSE maths in Y9 and hr got an A. They made him do it again in Y11 and he got a grade 9(just to boost their results🤣) but supported him with A-level work in-between. My daughter got straight 9s and the As at A-Level and is now at Durham studying law. Both were well supported through state schools and couldn't have got better results anywhere else. My two younger ones are not as academically able but are getting the support they need to maximise their experience in school too. My eldest was at a school in special measures and still managed to get 8s/9s and is now at uni. The other 3 are all at/have been at an outstanding school.

But British private education is much worse, despite smaller classes etc., etc. Trust me

trust you, although you haven’t been personally, none of your children or grandchildren have been, and you are basing this opinion on your personal judgement of people who have attended private schools, seemingly based on a difference of political opinion? Ok then…

😂The use of* has boldened my text. It should read Astar and Astars......

Look there are loads of academic scholarships for boarding schools. You need to be sure they will stretch him though. Boarding schools don't necessarily mean high academic achievement.

For 6th Form, if he really want to do STEM- check out this place
natmatsci.ac.uk/top-uk-sixth-form-for-stem/

You will need to start enquiring now though. Get your ducks in a row. There are parents all over burseries and scholarships for private schools, probably from the age of about 8 or 9, so you are already behind, as all the funds for secondary school scholarships will have already been allocated.

Sounds like your DS may well be a true exception so might be worth asking questions

This just comes across as a massive chip on your shoulder about privately educated people