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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To regret offering to visit an elderly neighbour in hospital when the daughter seems emotionally and physically distant

57 replies

Seenoevil1 · 29/04/2022 16:29

AIBU to now regret offering to help and getting involved?

My elderly neighbour is in hospital with dementia and unlikely to go back home after several falls. Her daughter lives a 7 hour drive away. Her son in law came to my door with an update and I felt sorry for them living further away so I said I'd pop in and see her at the hospital, take juice etc. I distinctly said I'd do this 'when I could' - however they then sent me details of friends of hers who live in the area asking me to co-ordinate my hospital visits with them.

Her daughter said the other couple would visit on a Mon or a Tues and asked me to tell them when I was going. I explained I couldn't do weekly or a set day but will go when I can. I had thought fortnightly but didn't want to tie myself down...

I feel my casual offer has been misinterpreted and I don't know or want to liase with the other couple as I don't have the time. The hospital ward is agreeable to me and the friends visiting.

Am I being unreasonable to now feel put upon and wanting to back away?

I've handed some juice in as the woman tested positive for covid so no-one was allowed in. The nurse handed the juice to her and told me my neighbour was confused and angry that the juice wasn't from her daughter. While I was standing at the nurses station the noises made me think back to my Dads final weeks in the sane hospital (diff ward) 2 years ago at the start of the pandemic. I stood there and thought: 'What am I doing here?' Then I felt bad for my neighbour..

It has been 3 weeks since she was admitted to hospital and feel I should visit...in the meantime the family had a pre-planned trip abroad. I don't really know this family well though I chatted in the street to my elderly neighbour quite often during the lockdown as I was worried about her. I moved into the street a few months before lockdown and gave her soup and scones a few times. She is now free from the 10-day isolation the hospital imposed and will be able to see visitors. I've not had any recent communication from her daughter other than that her mum would have to isolate for 10 days.
A previous text message was quite business-like, thanking me for handing things in and saying she had phoned and got an update from nursing staff.

Any advice? I feel as though I'm being contrary but also feel put upon. I don't know when the daughter is coming to visit next and I was a carer for many years for my late father who lived near me.

OP posts:
milkyaqua · 30/04/2022 00:10

saraclara · 29/04/2022 18:21

I'm not sure what the daughter has done wrong here. Asking you to let them know when you'd be going didn't necessarily mean that she expected you to go on that day every week, surely? And she was presumably just making sure that you didn't turn up on the same day as the others and get turned away.

You can't judge people by perceived tone in their messages. What you read as bunsiness-like might have been typed in an entirely different tone. Not every appreciative person types oozing warmth and gratitude. Text is notiriously difficult to interpret, lacking tone of voice, facial expression and body language.

Seven hours away is one heck of a journey. Taking advantage would be expecting something of you that they could easily do for themselves. They simply can't visit her often, and you offered. I'd see how this visit goes, and then decide what you want to do or not do in the future. But don't assume that the daughter is unappreciative. Her popping in to see her mum for an hour would take three days. If she works, that simply isn't going to be something she can do more than very occasionally.

Did you miss this bit in the OP?

I distinctly said I'd do this 'when I could' - however they then sent me details of friends of hers who live in the area asking me to co-ordinate my hospital visits with them.

Her daughter said the other couple would visit on a Mon or a Tues and asked me to tell them when I was going. I explained I couldn't do weekly or a set day but will go when I can. I had thought fortnightly but didn't want to tie myself down...

I feel my casual offer has been misinterpreted and I don't know or want to liase with the other couple as I don't have the time.

The OP is not the elderly neighbour's daughter, carer, close friend, or relative. She made a kindly offer and is now being told to organise a visiting roster. That is the job of a family member. Meanwhile, the daughter is off as I understand it on an overseas holiday, prearranged or not!

Seenoevil1 · 01/05/2022 23:10

Hi everyone

To update - I visited my neighbour in hospital today and took more juice. I decided it would be my only visit due to feelings discussed.

She was very confused and afterwards I messaged her daughter saying I had popped in but was going to leave it at that as I didn't know her that well really.

I appreciate everyone's advice. I realised as soon as I saw my neighbour that I felt it was too much for me as she was talking about being 'like a prisoner' in the hospital, had piles of clothes lying neatly beside her case as though she was anxious to leave.

It was sad and she and looking for reassurance, however I could see clearly that was something only her family could provide.
Thanks again. x

OP posts:
milkyaqua · 02/05/2022 01:29

Good on you, OP.

SonicWomb · 02/05/2022 02:06

As the daughter of someone with dementia I’m so sad to read these comments.

To me it sounds like all the daughter has done is not sound grateful enough in her message to you. I personally don’t think asking you to coordinate if you’re going is unreasonable at all.

People with dementia know much more about what’s going on than you realise but everyone is so quick to write them off because they don’t feel comfortable. I saw many friends abandon my loved one, who knew she was being abandoned. A friendly face made such a difference to her even if she was having a bad day, it was something she’d have done (and did) for anyone.

Please don’t write off this lady, it’s not for you to put yourself out but an occasional visit can mean the world.

Fraaahnces · 02/05/2022 02:35

I thought I’d pop in also to say that although she was probably pleasant enough with you because she was your neighbour, you admit yourself that you didn’t really know this woman. The daughter lives 7hrs away and wasn’t in touch all that often. There may be a very good reason for that also. You don’t know THEIR history. That’s also between them.
My mum was known as the generous soul who would go out of her way for anyone. And she was. She had an army of lame ducks around her to whom she would give money, time, valuables, etc… She would basically keep these people under her thumb until they realised that her toxic personality and controlling behaviour wasn’t worth the payoff. She was the exact opposite with me. She was physically, emotionally and psychologically abusive. She withheld food (she was anorexic and determined that I would be too) and so screwed up I left early. Like a lot of terrorist mothers, she was very clever about it all and was never caught out. At the end of her life, her filters slipped and everyone saw the “real” her - especially her treatment of me. Kind of gratifying, but a bit late. Her behaviour had led to me raising my kids on the other side of the world, without her input. At her funeral, I sat there listening to tales of her generosity, etc, thinking that I never knew that person at all.

milkyaqua · 02/05/2022 03:09

SonicWomb · 02/05/2022 02:06

As the daughter of someone with dementia I’m so sad to read these comments.

To me it sounds like all the daughter has done is not sound grateful enough in her message to you. I personally don’t think asking you to coordinate if you’re going is unreasonable at all.

People with dementia know much more about what’s going on than you realise but everyone is so quick to write them off because they don’t feel comfortable. I saw many friends abandon my loved one, who knew she was being abandoned. A friendly face made such a difference to her even if she was having a bad day, it was something she’d have done (and did) for anyone.

Please don’t write off this lady, it’s not for you to put yourself out but an occasional visit can mean the world.

She has made two visits, and felt uncomfortable being in the same hospital where her dad spent his final weeks, and has also felt put upon by the daughter and expected to visit more, and to co-ordinate her visits with others as if she is a family member - the same daughter who could of course cancel her trip abroad if she feels so strongly about her mother getting more visits from random, kind neighbours.

justfiveminutes · 02/05/2022 03:24

I can understand how you feel, and am pleased that you have settled on a course of action - of course you should not feel obligated to visit.

However, I do think that you have misinterpreted her daughter's text. To me, it just sounds as if she doesn't want two visitors turning up at the same time, possibly due to covid restrictions, or just so that she maximises the number of days on which her mum sees a friendly face. Personally, I would not have interpreted it as an expectation for regular visits. I would have stuck to my plan of irregular, as-and-when visits but just avoided Mon/Tues and text the other visitors on the day I planned to visit so that they didn't turn up too.

Anyway, I'm glad it's sorted out.

SonicWomb · 02/05/2022 03:33

@milkyaqua To me it sounds like the OP is reading a bit much into the messages, and people are reading even more into what the OP has said. To me there is no evidence of there actually being anymore to this at all other than, she said she’d pop in from time to time, and the daughter said thanks very much, by the way if you’re going then please let x know. OP said “The request was to co-ordinate generally and I felt they were assuming regular visits from me” but how is that an unreasonable response from the daughter to OP saying you’ll visit when you can? I don’t see any expectations in there at all. If you don’t want to go then be honest and say it’s because you don’t want to go, don’t paint the daughter as being unreasonable. As for the daughter going abroad, it’s absolutely no one’s place to judge this at all. It’s hardly like she’s asked the OP to step in whilst she’s away. The family will have been through hell in recent years and there’s more ahead of them too. You can’t put your entire life on hold the whole time.

As someone who has actually been in this position, I saw so many times people saying “oh she was very confused, I would love to go again but I couldn’t possibly upset her so I won’t go” just as OP said “reassurance only the family can provide” when actually what they really meant was “I dislike doing this more than I care about how much it might mean to the person who is unwell”. Which is fine, but at least be honest about it. The faux concern was something I saw all the time and it really upset me. I’d much rather someone said “sorry for my own reasons the visits are really hard for me so I don’t want to visit”.

SantiagoSky · 02/05/2022 03:52

You are under no obligations OP.

milkyaqua · 02/05/2022 04:11

I don’t see any expectations in there at all. If you don’t want to go then be honest and say it’s because you don’t want to go, don’t paint the daughter as being unreasonable. As for the daughter going abroad, it’s absolutely no one’s place to judge this at all. It’s hardly like she’s asked the OP to step in whilst she’s away.

And yet you've added your own wistful expectations the Op should visit more!

And the daughter has precisely asked the OP to step in while she's away and in general. Rostering visits is a close family job, not to be foisted on neighbours.

Beneficentbovine88 · 02/05/2022 04:13

I was in this situation once. An elderly man on our street suddenly became more frail after a stroke. Daughter - only child - was making her way up the ranks of the army very successfully which meant she was away for long stretches of time. No one's fault. It was just the way it was.

It started off ok. But then we somehow became the default hub through which all messages and appts and schedules were filtered because we had the spare key and the cleaner and home help had to be let in, we started doing food shopping, taking stuff to the laundrette for service washes. We were the emergency contact when he fell a couple of times. Then we were visiting him in hospital. Then we found ourselves stocking his freezer, and making sure his home was comfortable to come back to.

It was fine at first. He was a nice gentleman who had brought us apples and runner beans from his garden. We in turn felt it was what being a good neighbour was about and we were lucky enough at that time to live on a street where people did look out for one another. But we started feeling uncomfortable. Partly because, in the absence of anyone else there, we had been forced to assume an intimacy with him that he didn't necessarily want and he was a proud man. So we were sensitive about that. And he obviously would have preferred his daughter there, rather than us.

The thing is with these sorts of situations is that, by definition, they don't improve, things gradually get worse. I felt sorry for the daughter because had she been a man, I felt everyone would have accepted her being away in the army and there wouldn't have been the same level of expectations on her. At the same time, it wasn't really my responsibility either, and DH and I were busy with our own work and dc.

Things came to a head one weekend when he ended up very briefly, post minor op, in intensive care and I rang up to find out how he was and the nurse in charge told me that my name was listed as "first contact" (even though his daughter was informed and knew all about the op) and as it turns out, she was overseas again, having left that morning. I ended up visiting him in hospital a couple of days later and taking him in the things he needed, for which he was grateful, but that evening I rang up her army base, sat there on the phone for 40 minutes being passed from pillar to post and eventually got through to her at her posting, and told her that this wasn't on and she couldn't rely on us for help any longer and she needed to sort something out. Only then did she take leave and come home and actually do something, which unfortunately or fortunately for him, whichever way you look at it, was that he moved in to a nursing home. Things would have been much better overall, especially for him, if she had taken responsibility sooner.

It's all very well people saying "you don't know what kind of relationship they had with their parent" but surely you as a neighbour don't have a relationship at all other than one of passing friendship, and in circumstances where an elderly person can't look after themselves any more - which will happen to many of us btw - someone has to look after them and see they are ok. OK as in having food, water, basic hygiene and necessary medical care, we are not talking about frivolities here, anything above the basics is a bonus frankly in these sad situations. I don't believe in passing these things off on to the state to sort out because invariably, from my direct observation, they don't tend to do it very well.

SonicWomb · 02/05/2022 04:25

And the daughter has precisely asked the OP to step in while she's away and in general. Rostering visits is a close family job, not to be foisted on neighbours

@milkyaqua absolute bollocks - OP has not said this, you’ve made it up.

As for “wistful expectations the OP should visit more” again you’ve made it up.

milkyaqua · 02/05/2022 04:26

Please don’t write off this lady, it’s not for you to put yourself out but an occasional visit can mean the world.

I don't think I made that up.

SonicWomb · 02/05/2022 04:34

Where does that say that she should visit more?

milkyaqua · 02/05/2022 04:36

SonicWomb · 02/05/2022 04:34

Where does that say that she should visit more?

If you were reading the OP's posts, you would have realised she has decided to stop visiting and has messaged the daughter saying so. Her post announcing that is two posts prior to yours.

SonicWomb · 02/05/2022 04:42

I read all of them hence why I called BS on what you said, but obviously you have superior inference skills and ability to read things none of us can see.

I really hope you never have to live through the indescribably cruel death of a loved one within dementia.

milkyaqua · 02/05/2022 04:51

I am not sure why you are filling this thread with FOG.

The OP, as you'd know having read everything, has already been through caring for her late father. It is not her job to ignore her feelings of this being too much, after all, and sacrifice her own health and mental wellbeing, and it is unkind to push her after she has made a difficult choice, being a kind and generous person as evidenced by her care for this neighbour prior.

caecilius1 · 02/05/2022 09:49

@SonicWomb
Sorry to hear of your previous difficult situation however you're definitely projecting.
Co-ordinating visiting rotas, well that's for the daughter to do. Expecting OP to text a complete stranger to co-ordinate visiting is not on.

SonicWomb · 02/05/2022 11:11

@caecilius1 your opinion. Mine and several other peoples on this thread is that OP (and consequently people who are reading even more into it) is the one that’s projecting her experience onto the daughter. Not once anywhere in her posts as she mentioned being asked to do a “rota”. Basically it went like this:

OP: I’ll visit when I can manage
Daughter: Thank you, just so you know X is going to visit. Here’s there number so you can make sure you’re not there at the same time.

There is literally NOTHING else that happened apart from OP feeling uncomfortable when she got there, which came from her experience with her Dad and nothing that the daughter said.

Outcome: Daughter gets slammed on MN.

SonicWomb · 02/05/2022 11:13

*and from the lady being confused and upset, which is to be expected in hospital. Again - nothing to do with the daughter.

Poptart4 · 02/05/2022 11:27

I think you are jumping to conclusions here. You offered to visit and they simply sent a text to coordinate with other visitors. Probably because they were concerned about COVID rules and too many visitors. I dont see anything suggesting they expect you to become a full time carer.

I hate it when people like you offer something and then complain when people take them up on their offer. YAVU for this OP.

I think people do this so they can pat themselves on the back and tell themselves (and others) how great they are.

saraclara · 02/05/2022 13:12

SonicWomb · 02/05/2022 11:11

@caecilius1 your opinion. Mine and several other peoples on this thread is that OP (and consequently people who are reading even more into it) is the one that’s projecting her experience onto the daughter. Not once anywhere in her posts as she mentioned being asked to do a “rota”. Basically it went like this:

OP: I’ll visit when I can manage
Daughter: Thank you, just so you know X is going to visit. Here’s there number so you can make sure you’re not there at the same time.

There is literally NOTHING else that happened apart from OP feeling uncomfortable when she got there, which came from her experience with her Dad and nothing that the daughter said.

Outcome: Daughter gets slammed on MN.

Thank goodness. Someone who actually read what the OP said, rather than what they want to think happened.

milkyaqua · 02/05/2022 13:29

Oh, that's great. Can you three organise what days you'll be visiting then, and coordinate with these other rando strangers to be locked in for the next X weeks on that particular day and time? I'm sure you don't have your own family, friends, self, health, and lives to worry about. I'll be overseas having a nice time and then sadly I live too far away to be involved, but carry on! Ta. The Daughter.

Mary46 · 02/05/2022 14:36

Op just be wary. Its up to the family to sort rotas/visits. Are you on call when she discharged. Then oh ring x if you need anything. But you have been very kind

Laiste · 02/05/2022 14:58

milkyaqua · 02/05/2022 13:29

Oh, that's great. Can you three organise what days you'll be visiting then, and coordinate with these other rando strangers to be locked in for the next X weeks on that particular day and time? I'm sure you don't have your own family, friends, self, health, and lives to worry about. I'll be overseas having a nice time and then sadly I live too far away to be involved, but carry on! Ta. The Daughter.

Sorry but if any one is projecting i think it is you *milkyaqua.

The OP's thread title is already loaded with her obvious judgement of the daughter. It's certainly not an unbiased telling of events is it.

The daughter didn't want two lots of visitors turning up at once. She lives 7 hours away. Someone has offered to visit. She was pleased and gave OP some info about other visitors. OP's changed her mind. Totally her perogative to do so. Now OP's regretting offering and feeling awkward and is making judgemental comments about the daughter and her holiday Hmm No sign of the daughter judging OP but lets all damn the woman anyway.

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