Girls don't like hard math

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www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10759687/Fury-tiger-head-claims-female-pupils-shun-level-physics-dislike-hard-maths.html

Katharine Birbalsingh, founder of the Michaela Community free school in Wembley claims that girls can't be bothered with advanced maths 😂.

Ms Birbalsingh, chairwoman of the Government's Social Mobility Commission, said: 'I just think they don't like it. There's a lot of hard maths in there that I think they would rather not do.'

When pressed on why girls would not want to do harder maths, she added: 'The research generally … just says that's a natural thing... I don't think there's anything external.'

AIBU to think that Ms Birbalsingh is talking rubbish?

Interesting! Physics seems to be taught in a totally different way in the UK. I have a physics degree and the only time I came across a Bunsen burner was in the lab while doing the chemistry part of my course. I’ve noticed that my DDs’ physics curriculum has next to no resemblance to the one I learned. I mean apart from the underlying principles of course.

Some boy told me at university that girls couldn't be better than boys at maths

I was never that motivated with work but that spurred me on, I worked my arse off and won a special medal for the highest mark in maths for that year of university and beat him into 2nd place

He went on to form a hedge fund and retired at 35

And we are still in contact with each other over 30 years later!!

The data on this would be interesting, stats on maths and physics for gcse and a level split by sex and type of school ie single sex school, state, grammar and indie. I would also like stats on the sex of teachers teaching maths and physics.

Comments like this, esp from someone so senior, do a lot of damage.

I think many girls and women don't want to enter these fields because they know it's going to be a rough ride, lots of misogyny. It's a shame because society is massively suffering not having equal representation from both sexes.

What? It's brilliant that the Mail Online features this story, especially if you think it's a "misogynist source of mainstream press". There is nothing misogynist in the article, on the contrary, it communicates the ill-informed and hypocritical attitude of Katharine Birbalsingh to a large audience, which is great! Much less misogynist than lots of content on BBC News. As PP have said, this story has been reported widely

www.theguardian.com/education/2022/apr/28/no-girls-are-not-put-off-by-hard-maths-katharine-birbalsingh

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/27/girls-dont-like-physics-wont-do-hard-maths-says-social-mobility/

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/strictest-headteacher-katharine-birbalsingh-claims-hard-maths-puts-girls-off-physics-cr6qkt5zb

news.sky.com/story/social-mobility-tsar-criticised-after-claiming-girls-dont-study-a-level-physics-because-of-hard-maths-12600274

www.itv.com/news/2022-04-27/government-adviser-girls-dont-take-physics-as-they-dislike-hard-maths

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61247374

@MrsMangelsPortrait if you'd rather not read Mail Online maybe any of these source are more palatable to you?

First love was a girl that liked hard maths. So go figure!

Ok my mistake 🤦‍♀️ sorry op.

I'll go and find another news source to read up on it. I don't think highly of the DM (clearly) so was quick to jump to conclusions!

And thank you for the links

I didn't read much of the thread, but the title caught my attention. I did want to make a few comments and observations about what I've seen based on 25+ years in industry around this topic.

When I was in school, and Uni, there were a lot more males doing maths/physics and science subjects. There was little positive encouragement for young girls to excel in that area, a bias as if we were more suited to teaching, or nursing or arts.

I think that has changed gradually, but I believe that young girls (and boys) do need more support and encouragement and better teaching to excel in these areas. They are important for jobs going forward.

I work closely with several computer science related PhD programs, and the good news is there is a much more even gender balance today

She's on video saying it and the story has been on other platforms.

DM is strangely both misogynistic and very pro women. There's an argument that we should encourage their better stories by clicking on them in the hopes that as a business they'll write more of the same.

This is my experience too. The CS teachers seem to be teachers that used to teach IT which isn't the same thing. I don't blame CS graduates for wanting to make better money elsewhere.

People who say "research has shown" and don't give their source really piss me off. If you're going to use the phrase 'research has shown' to prove your point then it needs to be a peer-reviewed, robust study that you can give a link to, and you also need to show that you have looked for other studies that might show a different outcome. Otherwise I'm going to assume that you once saw a TikTok that happened to agree with what you already think is true and judge you accordingly.

Also, maths girls exist and rule. I think it's more likely that her low numbers of girls in STEM subjects is because she's constantly telling them that girls don't like them.

The data on this would be interesting, stats on maths and physics for gcse and a level split by sex and type of school ie single sex school, state, grammar and indie.

Some interesting graphs here related to that from the Institute of Physics 2012 report ‘It’s Different for Girls’ www.iop.org/sites/default/files/2019-04/its-different-for-girls.pdf

Take-up of sciences improves for girls and boys at single sex schools, possibly affected by the type of schools that are single sex.

@OffMyKloud, HESA statistics from 2020 as reported at Stemwomen.com (I cannot link on my phone) show that at that time UG enrolments by gender were as follows

Physical Sciences. 39% F
Maths 37% F
Computing 19% F
Engineering 19% F

With a long history as a STEM academic I have never before heard anyone claim that CS doctoral programmes are becoming more balanced, nor has it been my impression. The figures above do not support the existence of a pipeline. Overseas enrolments may help some, but they would have to make up vast ground to overcome the male dominance from those educated here (including many overseas students). Do you have any figures to support your claim? It would be very interesting and hopeful, if true. Of course, the same goes for Engineering.

DM is strangely both misogynistic and very pro women.

It's fun to watch. I think what's happened is that the DM represents/appeals to a traditionally sexist demographic, but it also loves to skewer "political correctness gone mad". Those things used to align, when said political correctness included women's rights and feminism. Now it's gone the opposite way and the focus of political correctness is gender ideology which harms women and is anti-feminist. So the DM have circled around to championing feminists who will say it like it is, because they are now the vanguard against the worst excesses of PC (now called "woke") bollocks.

However I will say for the DM that not everything about it has always been terrible - it has always made an effort with science coverage and had good science journalists, for example.

Interesting twitter thread about reasons girls avoid physics here (with research) twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1519956477984792576?s=21&t=htPg9TvErkTlWCusgjgkIg

I read an interview with a top migraine specialist once. He'd been surprised the Mail wanted to talk to him about a new treatment. He asked them why and they said "Migraine is common. We do common!"

Sorry to revive an old thread but I've recently been sent this link by the OU, as I'm still heavily affiliated with them.

It's good to see articles starting to come out as Katharine's comments are hugely damaging and undo all the outreach work I've been involved in.

Judging by the comments on this thread, women know it's nonsense but nice to read it in black/white.

Perhaps we can now stop the gendering of education and start leveling up.

theconversation.com/there-are-reasons-girls-dont-study-physics-and-they-dont-include-not-liking-maths-182382

• not just my outreach but everyone else who's involved obvs 😂

Sounded like I'm a lone man on a crusade, sorry 🤦

My experience of teaching in a school sixth form was that some boys were more likely to do A level physics and maths because of an expectation that they would do them whereas with girls it was more of an active choice. So there was frequently a number of boys who got the lowest grades/ didn't pass because they either weren't interested or struggled with the work. I also taught girls who dropped one of them for pragmatic reasons after AS because they didn't need both for the university course they wanted and boys were less likely to do this.

I’m glad an article has been written about this and I hope it’s not the only one!

FWIW I eventually quit the world of physics because I couldn’t stand being around all those geeky boys anymore. My professor used to stare at my boobs when speaking to me. There’s not only a lack of girls in physics but also a lack of more varied and interesting characters generally. The whole image of the subject needs a boost.

Accountancy is nothing like maths !!😆