Girls don't like hard math

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www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10759687/Fury-tiger-head-claims-female-pupils-shun-level-physics-dislike-hard-maths.html

Katharine Birbalsingh, founder of the Michaela Community free school in Wembley claims that girls can't be bothered with advanced maths 😂.

Ms Birbalsingh, chairwoman of the Government's Social Mobility Commission, said: 'I just think they don't like it. There's a lot of hard maths in there that I think they would rather not do.'

When pressed on why girls would not want to do harder maths, she added: 'The research generally … just says that's a natural thing... I don't think there's anything external.'

AIBU to think that Ms Birbalsingh is talking rubbish?

Rosehugger yes that’s us we both did Humanity A levels and have bred a child who is choosing similar A levels to us. I’ve tried not to influence and discussed benefits of taking maths or science eg keeping options open, variety, not all essay based but her heart isn’t in it.
If parents or relatives haven’t studied it probably less likely to chose it.

Most research nowadays shows that males and females perform similarly in maths, but girls are more anxious about it. Perhaps partly because of the Birbalsinghs of the world. I thought this attitude was declining: even 30 years ago, though a talking Barbie doll was programmed to say 'Math is hard!', there was a lot of protest and the doll was withdrawn. And there have been lots of changes over time. Whereas 30 years ago, females were less likely than males to go to university, nowadays they are more so. Whereas in the past, they were less likely to study science subjects, now they are more likely than males to study sciences that involve living things (biology, zoology, experimental psychology, and, in complete contrast with the past, medicine) and less likely than males to study sciences that deal with non-living things (physics, engineering, computer science). It's certainly not as simple as females not wanting to do hard maths.

Does the new GCSE grading to 9 put more girls off. Thinking about confidence and perfectionism. My teen views herself as weaker at maths as she’s predicted an 8 and has chosen A levels where she’s predicted 9. In my day an A was as good as it got so she’d not have evidence she was ‘weak’ at maths which makes her discount it.

Personally, the reason why I didn't do physics longer than I had to, had nothing to do with fearing 'hard maths' (I did maths A level and studied a science subject at university) and everything to do with my being both badly co-ordinated and a physical coward and therefore very frightened of lighting the bunsen burner.

The Bunsen burner would have been used in the chemistry lab rather than physics, no? 😉

You do use a bunsen burner in physics - one example is for heating a bimetallic strip.

We used it in both.

What makes you think you wouldn’t use a Bunsen burner in a physics lab? Thermodynamics? 😉

Apologies if this has already been linked:

www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.iop.org/sites/default/files/2019-04/its-different-for-girls.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjH2qqtlbf3AhWZQkEAHbiCCFkQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3II597KBMRoPCfi-qJxm9l

Girls from single-sex schools are 2.5 times more likely to take A Level physics than from mixed schools (just amongst maintained schools)

Both!
In physics:
The gas laws
Make your own optical fibres
Convection, conduction
Spectra and blackbody radiation

I've always just got maths. But I'm autistic and not particularly feminine.

The gender gap on Maths Alevel is much less than Physics, if her view was correct then surely there would be less doing maths?!

There is some research that has said when they can choose without pressure, women are more likely to be interested in jobs where they spend more time with people, compared to men. Which may not lead them towards choosingphysics and advanced maths as often as male students do.

I don't think that's a problem so long as those who want to, can. Because while you can make statements like that in the aggregate obviously they don't apply to all individuals.

Funnily enough I have Opinions.

KB should be aware of the research posted upthread that shows that girls in single sex schools are much more likely to take physics than in mixed schools suggesting that at least part of the problem isn't the 'hard maths' but the presence of boys (perhaps the knowledge that they'll be in a minority is off-putting, obviously one of the ways to tackle this is to try to ensure that more girls take physics so they're not massively outnumbered).

PP have rightly pointed out that girls have more choice at A-level due to better general performance at GCSE. The subjects where boys outperform girls at the top grades which would be needed for A-level are maths and physics...however the percentage difference in results isn't big enough to fully explain the lesser take-up of maths, and definitely not the far fewer girls taking physics.

For boys, it's more likely than girls that their good grades in maths and physics are their best results so they take them at A-level where girls might have several strong subjects.

BUT this doesn't mean that we should just shrug like KB and say 'I don't care if only 16% of girls take physics, let them choose.' She's the bloody social mobility tsar and should be well aware that a lot of the better paying jobs are in STEM. If she has a school stuffed with disadvantaged girls, then how about trying to improve social mobility by at least making some effort to improve their financial prospects by opening up the higher-paying job market to them?

I've found that confidence is a big issue with girls taking A-level maths. I've taught top set girls predicted a grade 9 who have needed a conversation about their suitability. They need someone to say 'of course you are good enough to take it' or to even just suggest it as a possibility for them. I expect the same goes for physics, particularly if it has a perception of being hard.

KB isn't doing girls any favours by reinforcing that perception.

You should say When there is no obvious external pressure

We have no idea what jobs women would choose if they weren't taught from babyhood that girls should be caring whilst boys should be clever

That's what social conditioning is

I did maths A-level. Sadly I barely scraped through, thanks to a Pure Maths teacher with poor English, a heavily accented and almost inaudible voice and a tendency to mutter into the blackboard as she chalked up endless proofs. The one girl who got an A in our group had, I suspect, plenty of outside help as well as ability; nobody else got above a C, and several failed outright.

We get our STEM teaching so wrong in this country. We begin by underestimating the capabilities of primary schoolchildren (teaching them ludicrously roundabout and tortured methods of doing straightforward arithmetic), then forget to keep them motivated in the tricky teenage years, and finally, for those who have managed to stay the course, we top-load them with a ridiculously content-heavy and time-compressed syllabus that seems designed to crush out all remaining enthusiasm for the subject.

There’s also a severe shortage of qualified maths teachers and it’s even worse in physics.

I remember reading that boys were better at getting the answer whereas girls were better at understanding how.

Just made me want to study it more

Which suggests to me that this is not just a problem with girls doing maths, but with everyone doing maths. STEM subjects are precisely the sort that you can’t blag your way into; you know your stuff or you don’t. Really good teachers are gold dust.

Unfortunately girls tend to be very good at spotting when they’re on to a loser with teachers. I wish I’d done that better myself.😆

In DDs school it is Computer Science teachers through struggle with keeping. Also low number of girls taking subject at GCSE although A level class about 50/50

Rubbish

I'm not quite sure why everyone's getting worked up over an article in the Daily Mail, as it's the most misogynistic source of mainstream press to pollute this country. Anything on there needs to be read with a pinch of salt. Please don't anyone contribute more to its hateful agenda by clicking in the article 🤦‍♀️

It’s been widely reported. I haven’t read the Daily mail article.

I literally (correct use of the word!) want to slap her! And I'm not usually prone to violent outbursts!!

As a teacher...I have NEVER encountered this!! EVER!! Quite the opposite...girls consistently out perform boys, year on year!

As a mum to two girls...I'm insulted beyond words! How fucking DARE she!!

Not surprised really, maths is an excellent degree and you can pursue some very lucrative careers, physics a lot of people study because they're either passionate about it or have a clear career goal. When the work is better paid and more interesting elsewhere it's not a mystery. Have to laugh when seeing that teaching computer science requires a degree, I mean as it should, but when you can triple your wage a few years out from graduating and work in places with very appealing benefits, why on earth anyone would choose to teach is baffling. Some trainees as bursaries are paid more whilst doing the pgce to attract them into the career than they are when qualified and in their first teaching post, madness. It wouldn't be popular but really the only way to attract sufficient numbers of these teachers is to have a higher pay band for them.