Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to send money to a Moroccan taxi driver

554 replies

Autumnterm · 26/04/2022 16:08

Back in 2018 I went to Marrakech on holiday with my son. I can’t remember exactly how but I ended up getting the phone number of a friendly local taxi driver who took us from A to B several times. When we went back the following year we used him for our airport transfers both ways.

Since Feb 2020 we haven’t travelled abroad anywhere but I would occasionally get a text from him saying hello or how are you, to which I would respond hello/salaam/labas and that was that. I didn’t think much about it except that he was checking in just in case I was headed to Morocco and was tempted to use another taxi driver....and I did at one point recommend him to a relative going there but their trip was recently cancelled due to COVID.

Anyway cut forward to this week. He texted again and said hello my dear friend how are you and your family, and I responded as usual.

But this time he went on to say that life is hard for him, he has had no work due to the collapse in tourism and as a result he cannot pay for his kids to go to school. He sent me a picture of them - a boy and a girl, they look to be about 3 and 5 years old so I presume he means nursery school.

Stupidly (maybe) I asked how much was school and he said €90.

He has since sent me several texts asking if i will help pay for his kids to go to school. His English is not perfect but it sounds like he wants €30 a month for three months and he says in return if/when we go back he will drive us anywhere we want.

On one hand I know that Marrakech is one of the scam cities of the universe (lots of the people who run investment scams targeting UK pensioners are actually based there). I have no way of knowing if the kids in the photo he has sent me are really his and if there really is a charge to go to school and if he really has no work.

On the other hand €30 is affordable for me and I genuinely do feel sorry for people who rely on tourist revenue who have had a very hard time of it over the last two years. Morocco is open for tourists now but it was locked down for the whole 2020 season and some of 2021.

Would I BU to send him some €?

OP posts:
Sawadeekaka · 29/04/2022 04:05

Autumnterm · 28/04/2022 19:46

for @MsDemeanors and all others in the 22% who thought it would not BU...

(rest of you cover your eyes/ears now )

This afternoon I asked the taxi driver if he would send me a photo of his kids at pick up from their first day back at school.

And he did. I won’t post it here because of their privacy, but it’s the same two little kids, but with their school backpacks on, outside what is clearly a school with parents and kids milling about. They are holding hands and even though they have tiny face coverings just about on, looking absolutely delighted.

I wish every four and five year old in the UK (including my own DC) was this excited about the opportunity to go to school - it really makes you think about what we have.

Nice update! I'm sure this taxi driver will remember your kindness.

BrownStripePJ · 29/04/2022 09:54

Lovely ending ❤

Mummyoflittledragon · 29/04/2022 10:01

I totally think you’ve done the right thing. Smile

Indicatrice · 29/04/2022 10:26

Autumnterm · 28/04/2022 19:46

for @MsDemeanors and all others in the 22% who thought it would not BU...

(rest of you cover your eyes/ears now )

This afternoon I asked the taxi driver if he would send me a photo of his kids at pick up from their first day back at school.

And he did. I won’t post it here because of their privacy, but it’s the same two little kids, but with their school backpacks on, outside what is clearly a school with parents and kids milling about. They are holding hands and even though they have tiny face coverings just about on, looking absolutely delighted.

I wish every four and five year old in the UK (including my own DC) was this excited about the opportunity to go to school - it really makes you think about what we have.

Lovely update. :)

BobblyBlueJumper · 29/04/2022 10:40

Thanks for the update @Autumnterm

I'm glad you went with your instincts, they were right and you've made a family really happy. Well done ✅

Autumnterm · 29/04/2022 11:14

@JinglingHellsBells

and I‘ve not insulted you

Really? Go back and read your 20+ posts to this thread. You’ve called me (and I quote) “mad”, “gullible” and “naive”. You also have implied I am ignorant and do not know the currency of a country I have visited multiple times. Finally you’ve suggested, on the basis of ZERO evidence, that I am a scammer myself. If I used my real name here that would not just be an insult, it would be defamatory.

OP posts:
Suzi888 · 29/04/2022 11:51

“wish every four and five year old in the UK (including my own DC) was this excited about the opportunity to go to school - it really makes you think about what we have.”

It really does, plus we aren’t fleeing a war either —-bonus. Some people are incredibly ungrateful and entitled.

You’ve done a lovely thing OP and if you can afford it then why not help others.

XingMing · 29/04/2022 12:25

Thanks for the heart-warming update. Delighted to know that we are not the only ones!

AchatAVendre · 29/04/2022 12:54

Autumnterm Really? Go back and read your 20+ posts to this thread. You’ve called me (and I quote) “mad”, “gullible” and “naive”. You also have implied I am ignorant and do not know the currency of a country I have visited multiple times. Finally you’ve suggested, on the basis of ZERO evidence, that I am a scammer myself. If I used my real name here that would not just be an insult, it would be defamatory.

Golly. I think courts might view that as a "bait and switch" rather than defamatory, given that you've courted attention about it on a public forum through your own choice.

Given that you are clearly wonderful, and that the most recent posts on this increasingly aggressive thread have encouraged us to simply give our money to near strangers as soon as they ask us too, despite the vote disagreeing with this entirely, and disregarding that showing photos of children or other suitable images is one of the most common tactics of scammers (of course this particular man isn't a scammer), and we are being discouraged from saying this, I fully expect my post to be reported as it does not agree with the increasingly pro giving away money narrative that has taken over the debate on this thread.

I think if you asked any police officer for their opinion, it would be entirely different to what is being advocated on this thread.

I mean really OP, if you want to give money to a Morrocan taxi driver and don't want advice about it, why post at all? The majority of the vote thinks it unreasonable and the post seems to have turned into insulting people and indicating that there is something wrong with them for being wary about giving their money to virtual strangers. I find it quite intimidating. I must admit I've thought twice about posting in case I am reported, and thats pretty sad, since mumsent is supposed to be a safe forum for this type of discussion which many of us might find helpful.

The link that Ratrick posted is actually an article summarising various research from different reporting agencies, none of which necessarily show the full picture (since its believed much of this type of fraud goes unreported) but even that article stated In contrast to Tessian’s research, over half (55%) of victims were women, with men accounting for 36 per cent of reports. An additional 8 per cent of reports were filed by people whose gender was unknown. Around 63 per cent of victims reported to Action Fraud are female and lose twice as much on average as men. That appears to support the generally held thinking behind advice that you would receive from anyone working in the police or legal sector that women are disproportionately targetted by scammers playing on their heartstrings to give them money while men are more prone to romance fraud through internet dating - so-called catfishing. Although we know from the Tinder Swindler etc that it affects everyone.

Why is that relevant? Because mumsnet has a majority female audience. It seems unusual to go to such an effort to argue against awareness of an issue that disproportionately affects women.

I also noticed that the OP's contact has come through a text message, and that is one of the contact methods not mentioned in the article that Ratrick linked to. Does that mean its safer for people other than the OP, who is very confident about what she is doing? Not necessarily. Its unusual.

I personally prefer giving to smaller charities, I don't like discussing it and its entirely my choice to do so. I'm a bit wary of larger charities although I accept that some have the reach that others don't. Even with smaller charities however I'd urge people to be wary. I researched a local charity recently (I won't give details) and although charities aren't required to give exact details of their directors' salaries, discovered that its director was paying himself more than £80k pa, which is around a quarter of the charity's income. It seems to fund a very nice lifestyle for him without the need to work anywhere near full time. So direct giving can in some cases be better, but in many cases it is part of an organised scam.

There is no way that any of us on this thread can tell with any certainty whether this is or is not a scam, which is why I'm really uncomfortable with the remarks made by some recent posters. I also think people are intimidated into posting because these posts are so different from the actual vote. Being aware that scammers exist and often use exactly these techniques is not "projecting someone's fear of the world". Its basic common sense. And its also basic common sense not to let anyone suggest there is something wrong with you because you choose not to give your money to anyone who asks you to.

Apologies for the lecture. Its something I have been involved in during my employment. I don't really want to get involved in arguments or suggestions about people's character and so on, or clever arguments trying to insinuate that I'm wrong.

SwanBuster · 29/04/2022 12:56

@Autumnterm - I just want to say you have conducted yourself with class and dignity in this thread in the face of some ridiculously vicious commentary.

I think you’ve done a lovely thing, and it’s a great thing that there are people who think for themselves 👍

SwanBuster · 29/04/2022 13:00

I think if you asked any police officer for their opinion, it would be entirely different to what is being advocated on this thread.

I don’t think we need to ask ‘authorities’ what they think in such specific cases.

I mean really OP, if you want to give money to a Morrocan taxi driver and don't want advice about it, why post at all?

…. But I do somewhat agree with this. That said, it made for a very interesting thread.

MissPolliezDolly · 29/04/2022 14:52

SwanBuster · 29/04/2022 12:56

@Autumnterm - I just want to say you have conducted yourself with class and dignity in this thread in the face of some ridiculously vicious commentary.

I think you’ve done a lovely thing, and it’s a great thing that there are people who think for themselves 👍

Hear Hear.

Autumnterm · 29/04/2022 15:11

@swanbuster

I asked a police officer yesterday as it happens. He said:
a) entirely reasonable to swap phone numbers with a taxi driver you use regularly. Bank account details no, phone number fine. If they harass you, block them, and report them to the police/licensing authority if in the UK.

b) re the giving of money - he said from the sound of it I had actually met the person, had done as much homework as I could, was aware of the risks, would not miss the small sum, so it was entirely up to me. He said he would probably have done the same thing. However he said he would pick a reputable method to send money & make sure not to share any bank account details with the recipient.

@achatavendre I don’t think anyone has an issue with a simple choice not to give money in a circumstance like this. I haven’t criticised anyone else’s choice and nor have I advocated anyone should do the same as me.

Some posters however have an issue with either the tone and language used (you must be mad, bad or stupid) towards those who think it’s not U, or some of the rather insular, culturally biased and sweeping assumptions that some arguments that “it’s obviously a scam” are based on.

Equally some people on the other side have an issue with suggestions they might be racist, mean and cynical. Not giving does necessarily not make you these things, just as giving does not make you mad, bad or stupid.

OP posts:
Mouk · 29/04/2022 15:17

I'd block his number.

pixie5121 · 29/04/2022 15:27

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request.

AchatAVendre · 29/04/2022 17:06

pixie5121 I wouldn't distinguish, and in fact didn't distinguish between people begging based on their colour. In fact I gave an example of a UK registered charity which seems to be a bit dodgy and I don't think anyone is suggesting at all that all romance scammers are brown? OTOH I'm really wary of anyone who suggests that not questioning whether people who ask you for money are genuine is in some way immoral/racist/means you are a bad, suspicious, overly wary person. The risk is that if you don't know the person asking for money all that well, its more difficult to verify their sincerity. Thats not always the case of course, people close to you can also try to scam you.

The risk is that people more vulnerable than the OP can and often are targetted by scammers who operate in a very similar way to that described on here. Its a very familiar modus operandi.

OP, thats convenient that you managed to speak to a police officer about this yesterday. That would indicate that you are more concerned about this than you give the impression of being on this thread.

But I'm intrigued as to where you think defamatory comments might have been made about you? I'm sure if you are mentioning something as precise as defamatory, you must be aware that not only must you be very clearly identified (which you are aware of) but also that it must affect your reputation so badly that it causes you financial or commercial loss as a direct result. Thats why we tend to get the Jonny Depps of this world, who are world famous stars, making defamation claims (and even then, he didn't succeed in a British court when he did similar). If defamation were claimed that easily, it would mean that equally, you were being defamatory if you wrongly claimed on here that someone had made a defamatory claim against you.

And of course the internet in general is full of a load of nonsense, particularly on anonymous forums. People call each other all sorts of nonsense but its very rarely defamatory. And even if it was, most people would be loathe to risk the 5k or so required by a specialist lawyer to take the case on in the first place!

OrchardBlack · 29/04/2022 18:06

I think you sound lovely OP.

Kanaloa · 29/04/2022 18:24

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at poster's request.

Erm well no because if a British taxi driver I used four years ago asked me to pay his kids’ preschool fees I’d block him pronto. It’s not like that’s a common and accepted thing here. And for what it’s worth I don’t donate to go fund me type stuff either. I might agree to sponsor someone I know well for a small amount of money, but even then I only do it if it’s someone I know well and only because there’s a social obligation.

Kanaloa · 29/04/2022 18:26

SwanBuster · 29/04/2022 13:00

I think if you asked any police officer for their opinion, it would be entirely different to what is being advocated on this thread.

I don’t think we need to ask ‘authorities’ what they think in such specific cases.

I mean really OP, if you want to give money to a Morrocan taxi driver and don't want advice about it, why post at all?

…. But I do somewhat agree with this. That said, it made for a very interesting thread.

I’d agree too. I’m not sure if op expected people to fall over themselves at how totally generous and lovely she is helping out the poor people, but she clearly had no intention of being interested in anyone disagreeing. So in that case why ask? Just give the money and enjoy the pictures you then ask for of the kids at their school looking ‘delighted’ and feel good at your charity.

Autumnterm · 29/04/2022 19:32

@Kanaloa you could RTFT, if that’s genuinely a good faith question.

As I have explained, more than once, when at the time of my OP I was 50/50 about the decision. I already knew reasons to be wary and to NOT give, but I was hoping some MNers might have useful information on the other side - for example how private schools there work, and whether or not tourism has recovered yet in the area.

Over the course of this thread, I have read enough from people who do have experience of developing countries and this one in particular, to grow more comfortable with the idea of giving. Whereas (on the whole), the “It’s a scam-mers” did not provide new or credible information and did not seem that knowledgeable about the country. For example, if someone had said, I am from that city and all the schools there close for Ramadan, this story cannot be true, so it’s a scam, I would have thought, HUH, that’s concerning. Or if someone had just got back from holiday there and said it was absolutely buzzing with tourists.

Instead there have been PP (who cannot ever have been there) arguing the story could not be credible because Euros aren’t the official currency of Morocco…or far less tastefully, that it must be by default mad/gullible/naive/stupid to give because I am a woman and he is a Moroccan man.

OP posts:
Ratrick · 29/04/2022 19:48

I think it’s quite clear that Kanaloa hasn’t been closely following the thread but is just desperate to be critical.

They brought up the same ‘who’s going to pay in the future’ question twice, despite the OP addressing it the first time Kanaloa asked it.

Some people are just really bitter.

Ratrick · 29/04/2022 19:55

If the OP had no interest in listening to the skeptics, she would not have put the question “aren’t schools free?” to the guy.

Whatever you make of the OP’s ultimate decision, suggesting that this whole thread was for the sake of virtue-signalling just reads like pettiness.

user1471459761 · 29/04/2022 20:00

No, please don't pay him. It will not be a one off. If it helps your conscience give some money to a genuine charity

Kanaloa · 29/04/2022 20:38

Ratrick · 29/04/2022 19:48

I think it’s quite clear that Kanaloa hasn’t been closely following the thread but is just desperate to be critical.

They brought up the same ‘who’s going to pay in the future’ question twice, despite the OP addressing it the first time Kanaloa asked it.

Some people are just really bitter.

Nope I’ve seen the answer. It’s just a one off etc, he’ll suddenly go from being desperate enough to have absolutely no option other than to ask a very distant acquaintance to being back on top of everything and pay for it himself, there was absolutely no way he could simply take his kids out of school for one month considering he’ll be perfectly capable to pay it next month etc.

And op apparently was convinced to give the money by this thread. Congrats to her.

Kanaloa · 29/04/2022 20:39

And what else is it but virtue signaling? She’ll enjoy the pictures of him at their ‘Eid feast’ and asked for pictures of the kids going to school where she shared here on a public forum about their ‘delighted little faces’ and how wonderful it is. If you want to give money to acquaintances for charity do it. There’s no need in that case to share.