to think that some people just don't get poverty?

[Ohsoworried]

I've seen a few posts recently where people earning a fair bit of money (think around 100k a year) are complaining that they're struggling with money, don't have enough etc. I DO understand that it is all relative but equally, for people like me on a low low wage, in insecure housing, wondering how I'm going to pay rent, having to stop paying in to my pension for the extra £30 a month etc it does make me cringe a little. Things are a little better for me at the moment but it has been hard and my secondment is up soon so back down to low pay. When I left my abusive ex I was living in poverty. And when I mean poverty I mean in a refuge, no job because I had to relocate, no money for a deposit to rent etc. It's the choice between being able to downsize your house, not go on holiday for a couple of years, make sacrifices but still live comfortably etc, compared with not knowing if you'll be able to afford your bills. Of course I'm generalising and I'm sure there are people out there who are genuinely on high wages but have high mortgage payments etc who are struggling. I do sympathise. But I don't always think this is the case...

People in poverty wouldn't have the option to spend money on life saving medical treatment, so there's the difference right there. And yes, I can make a blanket statement that if you earn £100k, short of being a victim of financial abuse, if you are living in poverty, it is a choice and one you have the power to change.

Some huge misconceptions here. Most people in Africa are not dying of malnutrition. Generally only those in war zones. Yet many live in poverty. That means a family in a 2 roomed hut, no electricity or running water, no flushing toilets, no free healthcare or ability to afford it, free education only to primary level. Very limited possessions. No benefits to fall back on in the event of divorce. Yet somehow they manage to feed themselves. Meanwhile in the UK people cannot feed themselves but still have a smartphone. Could it be that food poverty in the UK is a decision, made because people prioritise other spending?

Meanwhile in the UK people cannot feed themselves but still have a smartphone. Could it be that food poverty in the UK is a decision, made because people prioritise other spending?

This sort of Daily Mail reader thinking is ridiculous and ignorant. It makes me ashamed that some people think like this.

Its the same vein as 'BUT THEY HAVE A FLAT SCREEN TV!'

All TVs are flat screen now Gary.

Also Africa is a growing market for smartphone users! the smartphone penetration rate is 46% and growing. In poorer countries. In some African countries more people have access to a mobile phone than to clean water, a bank account or electricity, the agencies add.

Exactly and what else are we suggesting… launderette? Also expensive and really difficult to lug all the washing to one if you even have one near you.

Could it be that food poverty in the UK is a decision, made because people prioritise other spending?
No, but prioritising others things/bad money management leads to food poverty.

i think money management is something that many are not good at.

Also deeply concerning that people have so little understanding of how modern life works. No smartphone for many would mean no internet, and therefore no ability to make and manage benefit claims, to apply for jobs, to book medical appointments, to facilitate children's education... Even food banks typically require a voucher that few places issue in person since covid, it's usually an E voucher...sent to a smartphone.

Oh dear, if you take a BA in Economics, you will have to discuss situations and dilemmas, then write an essay on your findings.
Stop making this personal, it's an entirely reasonable proposition.
One of the reasons we cannot solve logistical problems in society is the emotional responses to quite often pertinent questions.

I'd be surprised if a question like that appeared as part of the curriculum for a serious course of study. The answer is so obvious that even those of the meanest intellect would hardly find it challenging to answer. So obvious in fact that we can be forgiven for thinking it is deliberately inflammatory and designed to elicit an emotional response.

This goes back to the point about inequality in itself being damaging for the people at the lower end of the pecking order. In a society that's wealthy enough for smartphone and internet access to be very high across the working age population, there evolve systems that assume it. That creates a specific problem of exclusion from those systems that doesn't exist in societies not wealthy enough to have the same level of ubiquitous internet.

@5128gap Yep,they really don't get it. This thread could be a prime example of the ones who don't.

The article is a great article and fills in the gaps of what I was saying, the close and wider family has been destroyed by political and economical factors.

'This is the story of our times—the story of the family, once a dense cluster of many siblings and extended kin, fragmenting into ever smaller and more fragile forms. The initial result of that fragmentation, the nuclear family, didn’t seem so bad. But then, because the nuclear family is so brittle, the fragmentation continued. In many sectors of society, nuclear families are fragmented into single-parent families, single-parent families into chaotic families, or no families'.

The problem now is the family is so fragmented, along with health issues are killing the economy. Then the question is, where is the moral imperative of society to support those that ruptured their own family? Because eventually, the whole pyramid will collapse.

I'm not judging btw, my own family is ruptured (I'm divorced). However my personal goals have all been sacrificed to feed my children, plus I've pooled my resources with others.

It gets very hard to make good choices when you are constantly stressed trying to make ends meet. Most people can't . Your brain only has so much processing capability .

About 10% of the uk don't have enough money coming in to realistically make ends meet no matter how clever they are

One bout of ill health and your job is lost and your savings are gone . You are under severe mental strain, employers are cautious - and expect you to have transport /look smart. Your brain is frazzled so you can't write a good CV ... lose lose lose

I'd be surprised if a question like that appeared as part of the curriculum for a serious course of study. The answer is so obvious that even those of the meanest intellect would hardly find it challenging to answer. So obvious in fact that we can be forgiven for thinking it is deliberately inflammatory and designed to elicit an emotional response.

Quite @5128gap

I'm usually good at ignoring the goady (because it must be, I can't believe the stupidity otherwise). Though some of the ignorance is tiresome.

mudgetastic agree with everything you’ve said.
but that’s not the case with the Majority of cases.
there are people who are reckless with money / made some very bad financial choices.

Because those people vote too, and usually for a party who will make things much worse for those at the lower end of the scale, except they don't understand how horrific the things they are voting for actually are, because they have no comprehension of it.

According to the United Nations, "People make huge sacrifices to recharge their phones, even skipping meals."

Obviously, possession of mobile phones is not a clear indicator of wealth. Africans pay an average of $5-8 a month and yet many, many people in Africa live on $2 a day or less.

60% of unemployed people in Africa are young people. Interestingly, they're able to use mobile phone technology to start getting into employment. Mobile phone kiosks, for example.

Most phones do not have Internet capability, but is predicted to grow. Young people mostly use text messages to communicate.

It remains to be seen how much mobile phone technology will help Africa develop economically.

I don’t think people posting about whether to buy an £80 birthday cake are in need of empathy.

Get my rota and my payslip for my minimum wage job (full time) through my smart phone because it's my only access to the internet and device to communicate. Local library has shut, DD has a reconditioned laptop that she uses for college and through lockdowns, rare it's available to me.
No data means I don't get a rota, no smart phone means I don't get a rota, which is actually a moot point because if I hadn't applied for the job using my smart phone, I wouldn't have even known it was available.
Sorry that I prioritise something essential to earning a pittance, still gives people like you the chance to have a dig eh? Silver linings and all that......

The scary thing is that the people running this country and making the policies don’t really understand povity!

I wish people would stop mentioning phones they are pretty essential for anyone working and paying bills these days . Here in Denmark it would be very difficult to function without one as everything is digital and virtually cashless too

I understand where you are coming from. I grew up 'poor' and I made a promise to myself that I would always have a job no matter how rubbish it was so that I wasn't 'poor' any more. Unfortunately in 2011 I found out that I have a condition that will give me cancer by the time I'm 40 and probably kill me, I had corrective surgery which should give me an extra 20 years if I'm lucky but because of the surgery I was deemed unemployable. I went through a few years of being 'poor' again and it was awful so I went against the advice that I was unemployable and got a part time job. I not rich but I'm not poor any more. Some weeks I struggle to feed my family but I will always put food on the children's plates before thinking of myself. Oh and the real kicker even though I was deemed unemployable I wasn't entitled to disability benefits either.

It is always a useful sign that the person complaining about them has no idea what they're talking about though, so there's that.

Me too, and there's pros and cons with both situations😎.
I certainly don't judge - have been on the receiving end of that too many times and wouldn't dish it out.