Scouts jamboree 2023

[Pissedoffcat]

I already give regular amounts to my chosen charities.
I also provide the relatively expensive presents requested by my friend for her children in terms of birthday and Christmas and have done so for many years.

I am now being tapped up in very unsubtle ways to contribute to one of their children going to next year's jamboree in Seoul. Will cost around£4000 approx.

AIBU to feel annoyed at being put under emotional pressure when Im personally on a budget myself and, rightly or wrongly, I don't necessarily see the Scouts as a charity?

I admit I don't know much about the Scouts and their infrastructure.
But I'm uneasy at adding another financial burden onto myself, for what seems a very nice jolly.

I don't want to appear unsympathetic but I am torn about this.

Is it me being unreasonable in feeling annoyed at being prompted to dig into my pocket? Especially for an organisation I really don't know about and I have already chosen certain places for regular donations?

Advice welcome.

Why are you letting yourself be used in this way? Yabu, you obviously enjoy your " friend" using you in this way so why moan? Just stump up the cash she asks for, it's the easiest course of action and you can carry on with your martyrdom and token charity presents from your friend because you are obviously a far better person.

in the early days I went off piste rather than rigidly stick to the list
The item was returned with request I sort it out and provide the actual item requested

Dear god; I'm hoping this is some kind of joke but am afraid it's not

You really do need to stop both the rudeness and the mindblowing entitlement, OP - not after a load more worry and doubt, but NOW
Plenty of good suggestions upthread (I liked rookiemere's myself) and most likely you'll get an unpleasant response, but at least you'll then know what this awful woman's agenda really is and can hopefully remember that friendship isn't something which has to be bought

@passport123 what happens if the scouts can't raise the amount required, who funds the difference?

Please spend the same amount of money on assertiveness training or therapy. These people sound appalling!! Why are you letting them get away with this?

@RedHelenB -

If it comes off as me moaning, then that's bad of me.
I'm just torn. I know how greedy she is and I ve accepted that.

But this is an 'extra' that I felt uncomfortable about and wondered if I was being unfair.

It looks like I'm not, which is a relief and I've now got some good pointers on how to approach this.
I am a soft touch. Well known, unfortunately.

But I know I can't let it continue.
My husband has queried a lot of this for years, but I brushed it aside.
But I'm happy to know that fundraising is expected and it's not just a case of putting your hand out to friends and relatives.
I feel better about not just giving in.

So, thanks everyone for constructive advice. Much appreciated 👍

They fundraise as a group and have never missed the target as a group. Usually go over so the surplus supports the group 4 years later. There is some money from central scouting district too

That is down to how each County has advertised it out in the first place.
In my County, is it clear from before anyone applies, that each one of the 40 people is fundraising the total for 40 people to go, so where there are one or two members of the Unit who have struggled to get to the individual total, then more of the 'whole unit' stuff goes to them. It is, obviously, dependent on them all putting the work in and contributing what they can, but clearly individual families are in different positions in the first place and have different people in their social circles, etc.

The same as if someone decided they don't want to go (sorry, can't remember who asked that) - when they sign up, they understand that any bag back / car wash / quiz night / dance / cake sale /badge sale etc is funding the Unit to go.

However there are completely different ways of doing it - so other Units will have done it differently. There are many units where the parents pay for it all (usually installments). I think most units do a mix of parents contributing some and fundraising for some.

Obviously those that are chosen get the most fantastic experience, but much of the money all the Western Countries raise, pays for all the infrastructure, and pays to allow all the Countries in the World where there is Scouting, to send a contingent. There is Scouting in all but about 6 countries in the world. More countries attend the WSJ than the Olympic Games (if you have ever watched an opening ceremony of the Olympic Games). Scouts from many of those countries are only there because the Scouts from USA, Canada, Europe, etc etc raise the money for them to go.

We always say that Scouts should offer 'something' in return for money - as others have said, getting your car washed, or your lawn mowed, or a lovely cake, or some babysitting. Or, they should put on events that are a great evening out - a Quiz, a Curry night, a Barn Dance, a Race night, etc etc. Nobody should be just 'expecting' their parents friends to give money.

that said OP, it sounds like this is nothing to do with the WSJ, and everything to do with the entitled nature of your so called friend.

Glad it's been resolved.

Yes exactly ours does this - you are raising money as a whole unit. So as a motivator at the last meeting they showed a bar chart of what different people had raised and how they had done it - but no names. It's very clear that they all go or no-one goes, and that no scout misses out due to family financial circumstances. Lots of encouragement to contact them if you're struggling and regular reminders that if you said you could meet the parental contribution at the start, but your circumstances have changed and you are struggling, they want to know. And yes a chunk, I think about 10%, goes to pay for scouts from poorer countries to attend.

One of my dc went to the last one. The Scouts and parents worked extremely hard to raise the money for the whole Contingent (County group) to go. They organised events, sold stuff, did bag packing at supermarkets, all sorts. They are not supposed to make relatives feel they have to contribute. I don't think any of ours did. Donate a small amount if you want to and wish them luck with their fundraising work.

I'd be pleased for the child, it will be a great experience and I'd support their fund raising. I'd have my car washed, share his details if he did a good job etc, but I wouldn't just give the cash, the fund raising is all part of it.

If I usually gave a birthday gift, I might ask of he'd prefer the cash towards the fund this year.

However, if I felt unreasonable pressure was been put on me, I'd do none of it.

Sounds like different counties do things differently.. In our country they had to raise funds for each scout separately and each scout paid to County as they went.. if they didn’t make the target by the end of the timescale the family paid the remaining amount.. My ds was recently meant to go to the European Jamboree in 2020 held in Poland.. then Covid happened.. it was rescheduled for 2021 but eventually just cancelled. The county then managed to get a refund and actually kept all the money the Scouts raised, and they decided to use the money as the County leader team saw fit. No discussion with the Scouts who raised the money for their trip was had.. they would not return the money to Scouts who’d had family’s and friends donate to the funds, one scout had a Saturday job and used his own wages each week to pay for the trip! And they refused to give him his money back!! (We’re still trying to recover money from the County team but I don’t see it being successful!)
this put my ds off applying for the WSJ and I won’t ever support the Scout Association again over their handling of it all.

dd did the international jamboree in 2019.
Amazing.
When she applied she/we were reassured that they would all fund raise and it would all be sorted.
Dd is in receipt of free school meals.
She was selected.
fund raising began.
Turns out most of it was expected to come from her fund raising and very little really came from the unit fund raising. In fact the days unit fund raised they didn't get very much each for the pot, lots of work and not much raised.
Some people basically had their parents pay for it, token fund raising. Or, they were old enough to have saturday/weekend jobs and worked to fund it. Dd was just 14 when she went (if she had waited for next jamboree she would have been too old) so too young for saturday job, and too young to do it all independantly.

Dd (and I) got stuck in. We worked our socks off for nearly 2 years. She baked and sold cookies every weekend, £50 at a time. Sold things on ebay, did an abseil off a tower block, ran stalls at table top sales and summer fun days etc etc.it takes a long time to raise £4,000. She received about £300 in total from the disctrict and county funds.

There was a hardship fund, we applied as soon as details were released. We were told there was no money left, even though she was on full FSM.

We had a chart up in our kitchen, and it crept up so slowly. When she reached £3,500, my Mum stepped in and gave her the last £500.
I nearly cried with relief.

Then we had to buy all the equipment she needed.

It was AMAZING and I am so glad she went, in many ways it was the making of her, it came at a very key time for her, and she came back walking taller and bursting in confidence.
I am so grateful she went, and for the opportunity, but bloody hell I was cross at the lack of fundraising support.

DD would have been old enough to go but for a variety of reasons she didn't apply.

We never would have put pressure on anyone to raise funds. It woudl be up to us as parents to say yes/no and DD to work for the money.

I do admit, it's a great opportunity, DD was earmarked to go for a European one when Covid hit and these meets are absolutely great for them but it's in my opinion up to the individual to ensure money is available.

Huge congratulations to your DD (and you of course). What an amazing achievement and sounds like it’s had an amazing effect on her that will be worth all the hard work

I will be honest and say I had never heard of the jamboree until this thread and no idea what it actually is (I was a Girl Guide growing up and the furthest we went was 30 mins away from home!) but sad that it seems out of reach for most regular people when they will get just as much from it if not more than those who have easy access to the bank of Mum & Dad.

Well done to all those fundraising and putting in the hard graft. Must be very satisfying to raise that much and then experience the trip

Thanks to everyone sharing their personal stories and insights into the WSJ as a whole. I have a more positive outlook on it now as an event and a better understanding of how the funds are meant to be raised.
@steppemum - your story was particularly inspiring and I'm so pleased that it was worth all the effort and hard work involved.

Not quite so impressed by the experience that @poppiesway1 has gone through. Definitely not right and utterly demoralizing. Appalling - so sorry for you and your son. I hope things get put right for you.

I really feel for you Poppies
I remember in the middle of the summer of 2020, I suddenly realised that if jamboree had been 2020 instea dof 2019, all that work etc would have gone down the drain, and I felt so sorry for those who had their trips cancelled.
Pretty shocked at the scouts attitude.
I think for us, each of them had a separate account with the treasurer, so they oculd see how much they had raised. I woudl definitely expect to get it back, or at the veyr least that it was reserved for my dd to use on a future scouting trip. My family and friends supported HER trip, not the scouts in general.

Bloody well done you and your dd. i bet she learnt so much from all the things she did and the ideas she (and you) had to come up with. So much more valuable than just having it paid for by your parents.
well earned.

I dont want to pay for someone else's kid's holiday.it seems, in at least some cases, that at the end of the day, the parents are expected to underwrite any fundraising shortfall, which rules out slme kids, probably the very ones who would benefit most

I do agree with both your statements. You can only raise that amount of money if you know people who have that amount of money.
and as you say the ones who would benefit the most are the ones who don’t have access to those funds.

i do think there’s a lot to be learned through the fundraising experience, with well thought out considered events and goods - that’s not mum and dad doing stuff for you. Helping, yes, doing, no.

For those unsure about how jamboree fundraising works.

I am going to the Jamboree next year as a unit leader. The is a lot more to it than just a holiday as the young people have training weekends that leaders have to organise and the whole experience is a 2-year long growth with development goals and learning about independence and teamwork (important skills for those aged 14-18 about to enter the workforce) as well as meeting people from all around the world.

In terms of raising the money to go - this year there has been a central UK contingent Dream Fund, which was means tested and available for all to apply to - it awarded up to 80% of the total cost for those who needed it, meaning it really is open to all. I believe there is a second round of awards in the new year, open only to those that did not receive one in the first round.

Counties arrange their fundraising in different ways, mine is all self fundraised and my own group hasn't been particularly supportive of independent opportunities but have donated an amount. Likewise our district had set aside a donation for anyone selected. The rest is down to us as individuals to raise. Other counties raise all the money for anyone in that county to attend. It can be a good way to do it but it does still annoy many as some put in more effort than others and it ties them to more dates that they need to be available. There are already 4 training weekends over 2 years and many groups do other team building/bonding experiences. For the leaders going as volunteers and paying the same amount to make the experience worthwhile for the young people, there are more meetings, training weekends and planning that are all unpaid and often involve expenditure on their own part.

As for the money raised by anyone unable to attend, any personal fundraising for our county has to be declared in an accounts spreadsheet, personal funds from working, birthday/Xmas gifts etc. are refundable in the event they can't attend. Any money given as a fundraiser though is held for the purpose it was given; to support a young person to attend an international trip. In some cases it may go to any young person replacing them as they have not had as long to fundraise themselves. It can also be used to top up others who have struggled/had extenuating circumstances or even be used to support another trip if this one is cancelled - it doesn't necessarily guarantee a place on that trip for the fundraiser though. The way the county manages the funds should be made clear from the outset.

To The OP, it sounds as if your friend is very entitled and looking to helicopter parent their child's attendance at the Jamboree. They should be encouraging them to work for the money, not expect handouts in addition to presents. As an adult I have been mentioning handy things to have as gifts and if I get them that's great, otherwise I'll save for them myself and be grateful for anything I get from family for birthday/Xmas. In terms of fundraising, I made a conscious decision not to do sponsored events or ask for handouts, I advertise services or 'chance to win' opportunities as well make and sell things, It is very important to think creatively and learn new skills with an opportunity like this.

I hope your friend understands that she needs to stop acting like a brat and returning gifts, that's just rude under any circumstances and certainly not in the spirit of Scouting values, she should be teaching her child better.