To think the article about Angela Raynor demean all women.

[PupInAPram]

I don't care what shade your politics are, you should be disgusted by the Daily Fail article claiming that Angela Raynor 'distracts' Boris Johnson by crossing her legs because her debating skills aren't as good as his.

Did you read the quote from Rachel Reeves? It’s pretty much identical to Johnson’s I also happen to think that women should have spaces - whether it is in hospitals or prisons or changing rooms or wherever - which are dedicated to women."

Johnson has had some time to prioritise the welfare of women. Why hasn't he shown any interest until now?

Why are some people only interested in a soundbite from Liar Johnson but won't acknowledge what Rachel Reeves said?

Rachel reeves isn't the leader of the Labour party I dont find her convincing, she seems unwilling to talk.

Sooty I don't believe you are reading what I write I can't keep going over it, you don't agree with me thats perfectly fine.

I happen to really like Rosie Duffield who recently said when interviewed 'We are basically making complete idiots of ourselves and there is no point pretending we are not.
'It is horrible to have to criticise your own party over and over again. I have been trying for two years to have conversations privately and now I am speaking out.
'The public are having these conversations, it’s not just me saying "I want to embarrass the party".
'We need to have an answer, it’s not going to go away.'
The former party whip also suggested that Labour's approach to the trans debate was pushing long-time supporters away.
'I have spoken to second wave feminists who have been in the Labour Party all of their lives, a tradition handed down from their parents,' she said.
'These are the women who revolutionised feminism after the suffragette movement, they are life long anti-Conservatives and the idea that they will abstain from voting or even vote Tory for the first time ever is desperately upsetting to them but they really do feel strongly about this.'
Ms Duffield also revealed how 'a lot' of women attendees at Labour meetings are 'shouted down and told that their opinions are invalid' due to a 'loud minority shouting aggressively'.

They don't take kindly for women's opinions on this within the party let alone outside of it.

We have to be able to speak about this and for views to be taken on board, it's not what's happening within Labour let alone outside of it in regards to this.
They aren't listening to women.

Anyway I am off to bed.

In regards to you pretending Labour don't think males should be in women's prisons it shows how little you know, a simple Google of Lisa Nandy and women's prisons will bring you up with various articles

A simple google of transwomen in women's prison stats will show you exactly how many there were before the Tories and now. A simple google of the statistics regarding transwomen in women's sport will show you how protective the Tory party of women's opportunities. A simple google of the number of trans presenting children will give you an idea of how fucked up 12 years of Conservative power has been.

The Tories have repeatedly created chaos and fear then told the country they are the only ones that can save them. It's Trauma Bonding.

I haven't denied this has happened under a Tory government, but it's only tories willing to now fix it, not Labour. You can pretend all you like that's the case but it's not.
You are being selective in what you pick out of my posts and ignoring anything else, I wrote many instances in changes that are happening and things that have been prevented that Labour want to happen.
I won't be replying again because it's just repetitive.
Have a good day.

I haven't denied this has happened under a Tory government, but it's only tories willing to now fix it, not Labour. You can pretend all you like that's the case but it's not

As i said earlier, its the Tories (Johnson) who are saying they will fix the very problems they created BUT they are not, they have announced zero extra money for trans spaces in prisons or do you want a trans to be sent to a mans prison an what would happen if they did?
No extra money for womens refuge's, single sex wards or reopening the 1000s of single sex public toilet blocks they closed down over the last 12 years?

I look for evidence and if Labour have not changed their stance by the next election and if the Tories actually start reversing their anti women policies and i do include their economic ones (pension cuts and below inflation UC rises) as these effect women predominately, then sure, i'll be voting Tory too.

@Sunflower987

Stopped Self I.D

rubbish! no they have not, that would require repeal of the GRA, which they are committed too.

So far hasn't implemented compulsory sex education for children ages 3 and up unlike Wales ( which is under Labour administration.) The Welsh government are being taken to court by parents who don't want this for their children

Still optional not banned.

Boris is capable of defining what a woman is which no other leader of any party is capable of doing, this is important so we can monitor equality, safety and crime against us effectively

He says... but provides no extra resources for the Police and others to do this.

Boris has stated he doesn't think biological males should be in women's sports, prisons, hospital wards

But allows it, Reeve also said this,,, for both its all talk but with BJ we know he and his party have been in Govt for 12 years, we know their record.

Sajid Javid himself has also spoken with NHS bosses telling them to follow the guidelines in the EHRC to protect women's single sex wards

Again all talk, they allow it and do not provide the funds to build, equip and staff the extra facilities needed.

Brilliant post. Spot on. I just find her skanky.

It won't stop me voting Tory. I can't stand the sneering, aggressive woman. I'm also not swayed by triviality.

ah misogyny alive an kickin on MN.... doubtless you also say Boris is doing his Best or you work for the 'Mail.

It's like people being repeatedly knocked about by a man and believing him when he says he's going to stop doing it.

This article displays clearly the rag that is the Daily Mail. Even wondered if some bright spark decided to make it up. They love sensationalising headlines. Passing by a newspaper stand yesterday saw headlines stating women could die as there is a shortage of hrt !!! Not a good situation for a lot of women and some will be distressed but headlines they might die doesn’t help the situation. However, the Daily Mail needs to sell papers.. As for Johnson and co. The story is as desperate as they are to pour scorn on a very able politician. Shame on the lot of them. Shame on the Daily Mail and their support of him.

saw headlines stating women could die as there is a shortage of hrt !!! Not a good situation for a lot of women and some will be distressed but headlines they might die doesn’t help the situation

The highest rate of female suicide is in 44- to 55-year-old women. It’s not a coincidence.

The article certainly does Johnson no favours. It's basically saying he's a horn dog who can't concentrate if there's any bit of skirt in his general vicinity..... which is probably true to be fair.

do you want a trans to be sent to a mans prison an what would happen if they did?

I'm guessing you meant to say transwomen be sent to a man's prison? If so then absolutely yes. A transwoman is a man so yes of course they belong in a men's prison. It's outrageous that the solution to a man's vulnerability in a male prison is purported to be to make women vulnerable. Let me ask you - what do you think would happen to them? What does existing data tell you might happen to a transwoman in a man's prison?

The Tories have repeatedly created chaos and fear then told the country they are the only ones that can save them. It's Trauma Bonding.

No as people are not saying they have bonded with the tories in any way. They are saying we are in deep, deep shit and sometimes you need to find a way to get enough solid ground to start the real fight. Very, very far from 'bonding' which suggests some sort of affiliation or faith in.

I'm guessing you meant to say transwomen be sent to a man's prison? If so then absolutely yes

Why can't there be a 3rd way? i ve no experience of prison but i would imagine a trans women in a male prison (and bare in mind they may have had surgery/hormones) could suffer horrendous abuse.

They are saying we are in deep, deep shit and sometimes you need to find a way to get enough solid ground to start the real fight. Very, very far from 'bonding' which suggests some sort of affiliation or faith in

I'll be honest here, your support for the Tories, despite them putting us at risk and robbing us of our rights over the last 12 years...does strike me as someone who is very much wedded to the party.
Especially so as you wont even wait until you see Labour's manifesto before stating which way you will vote...
We are approx 2 years away from any GE - i'll be waiting for the parties manifesto's before making up my own mind.

which suggests some sort of affiliation or faith in

You’re putting all your faith in the Tories, despite their track record on women’s rights. How else can it be interpreted?

It's very poor and I hope the men are insulted too. Shallow immature comments

I'll be honest here, your support for the Tories, despite them putting us at risk and robbing us of our rights over the last 12 years...does strike me as someone who is very much wedded to the party.
Especially so as you wont even wait until you see Labour's manifesto before stating which way you will vote...

I am not wedded to the party in any way whatsoever. I've never voted for them and it wakes me up at night to think that there is currently no way to actually protect women - it's just thinking what is the least worst option. In terms of the manifesto, until they have a leader who does not take action against an MP who states the fact that a woman is a biological female and does not stand up and proudly announce that TWAW. These things are dangerous for women and we can see clearly already that Kier is trying to obfuscate rather than protect women. If they get rid of Kier and take a GC position with a leader who has the nerve to actually state that, they totally, totally have my vote. The wave of misogyny is turning I think but I am not sure that it will do so enough before the next GE but I would absolutely love to be wrong on that front. I've said it before and people don't seem to be able to hear it (there is another thread re: Rosie Duffield's recent newspaper article about the Labour position driving feminists to the tories - perhaps people there explain things better), I hate the tories but I am in damage limitation mode and it is a very sad state of affairs when you come to think that you have to make a tory vote in order to protect the very language we need to ensure any rights for women. Labour should be ashamed of making so many of the electorate draw that conclusion.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee I'm not surprised no party has a clear policy.
Its a very difficult subject, hence why you didn't answer the point on should a transwoman (who has has surgery etc) be sent to a male prison?

To deal with the issues will take huge amounts of money too, at a time when we don't have any and following 12 years of austerity, where funding for womens facilities have been cut to the bone.

I want Labour to come out with a clearer policy and i hope they do over the next few months BUT i judge the tories on their record and its an appalling one, from reduced sporting opportunities for girls to 3 year waits before a rape case goes to trial.
Now we have the HRT supply issues.

The tories are not protecting womens rights, indeed they are dismantling them.

Well the revelation today of a Tory frontbencher openly watching porn on his phone in Parliament while seated next to a female colleague rather leads me to question how serious the Tory party is about respecting women. Still as long as good old Johnson can throw out a soundbite it's all OK... 🙄

there is another thread re: Rosie Duffield's recent newspaper article about the Labour position driving feminists to the tories - perhaps people there explain things better

They don’t. I’ve just read that thread and it’s mostly arguments about whether a spoilt paper makes a difference or not. And, yes, what a ringing endorsement of how much the Tories care about women when one of their MPs watches pornography in the chamber. The Tory party is misogyny on steroids.

The tories are not protecting womens rights

No-one has said they are.

I'm not surprised no party has a clear policy.
Its a very difficult subject, hence why you didn't answer the point on should a transwoman (who has has surgery etc) be sent to a male prison?

I answered the question 20 minutes before you posted this?!! A transwoman is a male regardless of what modifications they have made to their external appearance in terms of body modification, hair, clothing, make-up or any other area. So yes I think they belong in a male prison.

Why can't there be a 3rd way? i ve no experience of prison but i would imagine a trans women in a male prison (and bare in mind they may have had surgery/hormones) could suffer horrendous abuse.

I don't think a 3rd way is helpful as this sets up transwoman (males) as somehow qualitatively different from other males who will have a very wide range of identities. There is no proof that gender identity is some sort of higher context marker for most people. We're not arguing for separate prisons for different religious groups, for people who support different political parties or sports teams and for some people these identities are more important than gender identity (indeed most people don't have a gender identity). We need to ensure that prisons are safe for all people. I think gay men get a difficult time of it in prison and I would not want their needs overlooked in a 'third space' argument. If there is any separate space for transwomen, it should be a separate section of a male prison IMHO.

The tories are not protecting womens rights

No-one has said they are

Then why are you intending to vote for them when your entire premise for doing so is that they know what a woman is?

Then why are you intending to vote for them when your entire premise for doing so is that they know what a woman is?

Knowing what a woman is is not the same as protecting women's rights. I've said lots of times that I think it's essential to reserve the word woman for actual women in order to protect women's rights - clearly it's not going to be the tories doing the actual protecting. If labour succeed in their bid to obliterate the word 'woman' as referring to women, no-one will be able to protect women's rights.