To think school uniform is a bunch of crap?

[Ahurricaneofjacarandas]

So to be clear, I don't think the principle of uniform itself is crap. However why are we allowing our primary aged kids especially to spend the majority of their childhood in such restrictive clothing?! It's almost always restrictive trousers/dresses at least and some in my area even proper shirts and ties. We have evidence in the importance of learning by moving in this age group. Most kids this age have a degree of sensory processing immaturity. Many even have spd and this is arguably discriminating against these kids. I do understand the importance of uniform and learning to adhere to uniform standards but can anyone give me a reason why the uniform isn't just a simple pair of leggings/joggers and a tshirt and hoodie? Maybe I've overlooked something but it seems to me it's entirely for the benefit of the school and their pockets not the children.. why do we accept this?

It’s no coincidence that the school is rated outstanding and is massively oversubscribed.

Well yes, it is.

You do know that there are schools in the UK which are rated outstanding and are massively oversubscribed which are either not super strict on uniform or have none at all? You do know that there are legions of outstanding schools without uniform all over Europe and the rest of the world?

We get it, you love uniform. But until you can substantiate your claims that it magically makes education perfect, we're just going to assume you're in the cult.

What do you mean by appropriate tone?

As demonstrated by DT’s at their uk non uniform school and their cousins in France, Belgium and the US, you can learn very successfully wearing jeans and a hoodie.

Agree. Dd's school are consistently outstanding for several years and yes they have uniform but it's far less picky than some of the 'less good' (on paper at least) schools

@Tolson is an example of how for a lot of people in the UK, uniform is a matter of faith. Nothing rational about it - it's a religion. You can't argue with the faithful, they're incapable of thinking about matters of causality and correlation.

I'm with you 100%. I have always sent mine in leggings and joggers, comfortable jumpers or hoodies and comfy trainers. Most parents are the same. The head is brilliant too - end of the year and they've grown out of it? Send them in whatever you have, just as long as they get to school.

I read about a school who don't have a uniform as such, they had a "dress code". Basically anything from the uniform section in the supermarkets, any colour the kids wanted. Bet it looks lovely in the summer with them all playing out in bright colours. If every school did that it would be so much easier to have uniform banks and clothing swaps etc so I'd support that kind of uniform. Stark contrast to the depressing as hell brown and yellow of many Catholic schools we have up in Scotland...

I would also address two further questions to @Tolson

1. What % of children in your state school are on Free School Meals?
2. How much does your school's uniform cost?

@Tolson I asked because there is strong evidence that many schools select by stealth by making their uniforms very expensive. I was just asking whether your school was one such. If schools must have a uniform, why are they making it deliberately expensive? It can only be to exclude less wealthy families whose children might be 'trouble'. Hoodies, jeans, T-shirts and tracksuit bottoms can be had cheaply from many shops, so your argument that they are always more expensive falls right there.

I note you are dodging the question on free school meals, so I am going to assume that your school caters to children from affluent families - again, selection by wealth. Poverty is the strongest driver of poor school performance, not what people are wearing. Your wilful ignorance if that fact tells me all I need to know.

You are also falling back on the 'well, they will all want designer gear which will cost more' argument. This is not borne out by experiences of non uniform schools in the UK or elsewhere in the world. My (anecdotal) experience is that in my DDs' non uniform 6th form, brands were completely unimportant. Students dressed in a range of styles from standard fashion to vintage. My DDs and many of their friends had modest clothing allowances/jobs which they used to source clothes from charity shops. Lastly, it is the responsibility of parents to raise their children not to be brand obsessed.

DT’s, their friends and cousins didn’t wear branded clothes for school - worked out much cheaper than a school uniform as they wore clothes they would have anyway. There wasn’t any pressure to wear a particular brand/style of clothes.

And yet the evidence in the school says differently. Very differently.

Do your DC’s not wear casual clothes after school, the weekends and school holidays?

If we're going to nitpick about the cost of clothes then we need to see some actual calculations, @Tolson . These should also include the approximately 13 weeks of the year that students are not at school, which increases the cost per wear of uniform.

I am concerned that you do not consider the cost of uniform to be an issue. For very many parents it is very much an issue, and the fact that you don't think it is suggests to me that you are financially comfortable and not worried about the cost of living. A lot of people are not so privileged and worry acutely about having to buy uniform and shoes every year for growing children. And no, most schools do not have second hand shops.

Any answers on the % of children at your school on FSM?

@JustLyra uniform believers don't do evidence. The fact that behaviour has improved in your school now that uniform rules have been substantially relaxed goes against their religion. They don't want to know.

I don't agree with schools doing deals to make uniforms expensive. They should be available, at cost, from the school itself.

Or even simpler, they should be available from high street retailers. The specialist schoolwear retailers are a cartel and should be driven out of business.

These days school uniform is even more important because it stops the rich/poor divide from invading our children's lives.

Seriously? This presupposes that children don’t have friends and don’t go to each other’s homes. That they don’t talk about their holidays or lack of. If they do, they are more than aware of the rich/poor divide.

Arguments based on cost don’t really make any sense to me. If schools didn’t require uniform, parents would have to spend money on clothes for school.

Except uniforms are extra to the clothes that children already have. Unless children are running around naked, they already have clothes when they start school. DS definitely already had enough clothes when he started school and, luckily I didn’t have to buy any more. With uniforms, the other time of great waste is moving from primary to secondary if the primary uniform is not outgrown. In addition children need clothes for the holidays which has to take in 6 weeks in the summer, unless they wear their uniforms on some of those days.

My son has been told of for wearing socks that weren't plain black or grey. The PE kit drives me mad, £90 not including bag, trainers and football boots. My oldest school is changing uniform from September, only for new starters but means no 2nd hand uniform or hands me downs

My DD"s school is also outstanding. The DC wear hoodies, t-shirts and joggers/shorts up to 3x a week as they are worn all day for p.e/swimming/outdoor learning. The other days they wear a relaxed uniform of polo shirts and jumper, cardigan or fleece with trousers, shorts, skirts, pinnies or leggings. Shoes, trainers, boots or sandals on feet.

Thankfully the DCs’ (state) school still have a very strict uniform- blazer, cap/boater, jumper, tie, kilt, shorts for the boys until year 6, socks, smart shoes, school logo coat, school logo bag.

Boater? I’d love to know where this state school is.

It’s no coincidence that the school is rated outstanding and is massively oversubscribed.

Its no coincidence that they have priced out non-aspirational families.

My oldest school is changing uniform from September, only for new starters but means no 2nd hand uniform or hands me downs

Such a waste. Where do they think all the outgrown uniform is going to go?

By definition, they’re not clothes they would have anyway. Clearly more casual clothes are going to be required if that is what’s being worn 7 days a week rather than 2.

How do you manage in the holidays if your kids only have casual clothes for 2 days a week? Unless your forever doing washing or they wear their uniforms some days.

But many schools do have simple uniform from the high street. At dd's primary you can buy a logoed polo shirt and cardi, but it is also fine to wear plain ones in the same colour. Leggings/joggers 2 days a week for PE. The secondary I teach at is the same. Only 'branded' items are the blazer and tie - total cost less than £40, funded for those on FSM.

Sleepless and that is fine, but the trend is in the opposite direction - logos on everything, parents to pay £££, all to price out the riffraff. The guidance from the government needs to be made law so that schools are hit hard in the OFSTED for this sort of thing.