To think school uniform is a bunch of crap?

[Ahurricaneofjacarandas]

So to be clear, I don't think the principle of uniform itself is crap. However why are we allowing our primary aged kids especially to spend the majority of their childhood in such restrictive clothing?! It's almost always restrictive trousers/dresses at least and some in my area even proper shirts and ties. We have evidence in the importance of learning by moving in this age group. Most kids this age have a degree of sensory processing immaturity. Many even have spd and this is arguably discriminating against these kids. I do understand the importance of uniform and learning to adhere to uniform standards but can anyone give me a reason why the uniform isn't just a simple pair of leggings/joggers and a tshirt and hoodie? Maybe I've overlooked something but it seems to me it's entirely for the benefit of the school and their pockets not the children.. why do we accept this?

I don't understand why people don't know that the vast majority of schools in the UK have uniforms and that the vast majority of parents don't actually have a real choice about which school their children go to.

But even in cities where there are plenty of schools to choose from, they nearly all have uniforms. If there was a great demand for non-uniform schools, one school would have no uniforms, they'd get their pick of pupils due to demand, they'd shoot up the rankings and other schools would follow suit in order to compete. This hasn't happened.

Florenz that is because of the UK cult of uniform. Ultimately the problem is that people genuinely believe that uniform makes schools better, despite the fact that there is zero evidence (other than a study sponsored by a schoolwear company, which can be readily dismissed). No matter how many people recount their experiences of perfectly functional schools and societies in countries where there is no uniform, the cult persists. It's some kind of weird delusion.

You understand that having lots of school doesn’t mean that individual parents get any choice of schools?

I’d far rather send DS to a non-uniform school, but realistically where I live in south London I have a choice of three boot-camp style Harris academies, or going private. Or moving, but not everyone has that option.

even in cities where there are plenty of schools to choose from...

...you still don't actually get to choose which school admits your child and so its not really a choice at all.

My sons primary is fairly relaxed on uniform - black trousers, white shirt and school branded jumper and tie but you can still spot the difference between the "haves" and "have nots".

I do not think there is some vast conspiracy of schools forcing uniform on pupils against the wishes of parents, pupils and everybody else. If people believe that uniform makes schools better, then that is true. Perception is reality. What is the alternative?

If people believe that uniform makes schools better, then that is true. Perception is reality.

Perception is reality? What world are you living in?

If uniforms make schools better, then why

• are there reams of countries with no school uniform which outperform the UK both economically and in education?
• are there excellent non uniform schools in the UK?
• are there absolute hell hole schools with uniform in the UK?
• is there no body of properly conducted research that backs up your statement?

If perception is reality, I could get stoned, hallucinate a rainbow unicorn and that would make it real.

There isn't a conspiracy of schools forcing uniform on parents (though there are absolutely schools practicing stealth exclusion of poorer pupils by making uniform prohibitively expensive). What there is in the UK is a belief that appearance is more important than achievement. And that is tragic.

The alternative is to have no uniform so that teachers and schools can put their energies into managing actual behaviour. Like they do in other countries.

My DDs' 6th form had (and still has) no uniform, and a very relaxed dress code - clothes have to be clean, not ripped and free of bad language. That's it. Behaviour is excellent. Academics are excellent. It can be done - so why aren't all schools doing it?

The UK needs to wake up and stop wasting time and money enforcing an outdated and impractical school uniform policy. Children look ridiculous in polyester school blazers when it’s more comfortable to be in a hoodie.
Worse are the schools making summer and winter school uniform mandatory on a given date regardless of the weather or individual preferences

I'm finding it interesting at the moment with DD's school - more specifically some of the parents.

During lockdown the HT told parents not to buy the full-on uniform for the next year. Just to buy black trousers/skirt/shorts that were comfortable (joggers, thick leggings or others) and either white, black or red plain tshirt or poloshirt, plus black or red hoodie or cardi so that if there were more lockdowns there wasn't expensive uniform sat in a cupboard being outgrown without any use. Just to get comfortable stuff that kids would get wear out of.

Once they went back she reiterated the same as there was no guarantee of more lockdowns, or closures due to covid.

She's quite openly said that she's considering pushing for that level of 'uniform' to be all that is needed because she (and other staff) believe it's been much less hassle and that the children are more comfortable, which has had a positive effect on behaviour.

Quite a number of parents are up in arms about it. They want a proper uniform.

@JustLyra perhaps there should be the option of wearing what the head suggested OR a full on blazer/tie/kilt/logo on trousers combo. If a child or their parent really wants them to wear that nonsense then let them do it. But for those that don't want to have the more casual uniform.
It would still be uniform rules to follow. The children couldn't just turn up in any old thing but it would take away the pressure (and time consuming waste of teachers time) of "where is your tie", "why aren't you wearing your blazer", "your trousers are clearly from Asda - they should have the logo" etc.
Just have a long list of a variety of 'school' style clothes to choose from - which can include a blazer and tie if people are really that desperate for one.

My teenagers all went to a comprehensive where there was no uniform and teachers were all called by their first names. As new to the area my children were in shock .... for a day! Actually there was a self-imposed uniform, (late 80s/90s) of joggers, sweatshirts/hoodies (XXL), and jeans, boys & girls. As a teacher I was anti uniform, all that 'tuck your shirt in, unfold your skirt waistband. Those who say it's a leveller, it's not. The poorer kids have one set, the richer kids multiple sets. The poorer kids had Tesco, the richer kids John Lewis. You can tell the difference. The poorer kids wore their uniforms at weekends too, their only trousers etc. As a parent I never had to police my children as they left the house, there were no rules. It did not affect their attainment, they all got into universities of their choice, good careers etc. Ofsted are keen in uniform, especially blazers, all this take pride in your appearance take pride in your work propaganda. If, IF, we have to have uniform it should be available from supermarkets at minimum cost. No badged items, the school to sell badges & ties if they must. Yes, people will still buy John Lewis gear, but at least the rest of the parents aren't having to spend a fortune, not when we're looking down the sofa for any farthing to put the central heating on.

She doesn’t want that because, basically, she’s more interested in the kids and the impact in school than what the parents want tbh.

despite the impact of lockdown the school has said that behaviour has improved, and it’s being directly linked to the more relaxed atmosphere. The way the bubbles were set up has changed the school a lot because of how they did it and that also plays a part because the school lost far fewer days than others locally.

it’s just interesting because the kids are doing well, there are far fewer issues than the comparable school locally, yet there are a group of parents actually wanting her removed if she doesn’t back down.

it’s very bizarre imo. It’s like there’s a fear people will think they are poor if their kid doesn’t face a stupid, expensive uniform.

I mean, the one parent who owns the local uniform shop i understand. The rest are baffling.

@JustLyra your head teacher sounds like a wonderful sensible person.
Perhaps then if people are so desperate for their children to wear a blazer and tie that could be their at home clothes 😂

When I went to school, uniform was a badge you wore. It gave you a sense of pride, and you felt part of something.

These days school uniform is even more important because it stops the rich/poor divide from invading our children's lives.

Six and seven year olds wearing shirts and ties and restrictive clothing at that age is madness to me
yes had a uniform but make it practical a polo t shirt or round neck tee and joggers fine

I feel school uniforms have a purpose as it sets a standard for adult life with working. I don't agree however it has to be from a specific supplier / must all be badged up.

But it doesn't do that at all...

In fact there's one school locally who, imo, use their uniform policy to actively discourage poor people from wanting to send their children there.

If uniform was a proper tool to stop the rich/poor divide then uniform would be "Asda blue jumper" or "Tesco black pinafore". It's not, it's "fucking expensive daft shade of grey trousers from very specific expensive shop".

What standard does wearing a school uniform set that children at non uniform schools in the uk and other countries don’t have?

My son only left school three years ago but his school were quite relaxed. Black trousers, polo shirt (branded or unbranded) and blue jumper (branded or unbranded) They focussed more on the education than the uniform and it worked.

You would have to travel over 100mes to find a non uniform secondary school from where I live .

I'd be happy if school uniforms were abolished altogether - other countries manage fine without them - but I can't ever see that happening in the UK.

Since covid, my children have been going to school in their PE kits on PE days. I'd rather that was their permanent uniform - it's comfortable, warm in winter (jogging bottoms and hoody) and cool in summer (t-shirt and shorts).

And yet other countries where there is no uniform manage to produce young people who end up able to work whilst being dressed appropriately for their jobs, being more productive than British workers and have better educational outcomes. Pray how is that possible without the panacea that is uniform?

I feel school uniforms have a purpose as it sets a standard for adult life with working.

If that's true, why do we impose it on four year olds, yet allow 18-21 year olds wear whatever they want? That makes no sense whatsoever.