To think school uniform is a bunch of crap?

[Ahurricaneofjacarandas]

So to be clear, I don't think the principle of uniform itself is crap. However why are we allowing our primary aged kids especially to spend the majority of their childhood in such restrictive clothing?! It's almost always restrictive trousers/dresses at least and some in my area even proper shirts and ties. We have evidence in the importance of learning by moving in this age group. Most kids this age have a degree of sensory processing immaturity. Many even have spd and this is arguably discriminating against these kids. I do understand the importance of uniform and learning to adhere to uniform standards but can anyone give me a reason why the uniform isn't just a simple pair of leggings/joggers and a tshirt and hoodie? Maybe I've overlooked something but it seems to me it's entirely for the benefit of the school and their pockets not the children.. why do we accept this?

Parents in Europe do not do the school run in a onesie!

I think a uniform is smart and I think it instills in children from early on some morals

Are you saying our European neighbours are immoral?

I can only speak for primary schools.

I'm not a fan of branded uniforms but non uniform days always seemed to bring out the pretentious overpriced clothes and footwear that children, even in Year 1, would brag about ; think Ugg boots, Nike trainers and the such like.

Schools would have to be even stricter if uniforms were abolished.
Even on Forest School days some children would bring their branded logo wellies and branded logo sweatshirts and jackets.

Sad thing is, the school was in an area of low income households.

Uniform evens out the income disparities but there were always parents who just needed to flout with a flourish.

@Tolson you are referring to a tiny, tiny % of schools in Switzerland and the like - schools where the children of very very rich people go. These schools are even less representative of the general population of those countries than posh private schools are of the UK population.

So please address the question as it applies to ordinary children from ordinary families - how do those children who do not wear uniforms in countries outside the UK manage to go to top universities (because they do), achieve top jobs (they do) and live productive lives (they do)?

And are you aware that the children of the Dutch Royal Family all went to state schools (admittedly leafy ones) with no uniform?

Personally I think the difference in terms of parental behaviour is about engagement with education - and that is down to social and economic inequality, which is ever growing in the UK and not being addressed. Close the divide between the haves and the have nots and watch your society improve - but that would mean admitting the UK model is wrong in almost every respect.

@ButtockUp - no fashion parades or clothing bullying at DT’s school - no one is interested . It’s rare to see any branded clothes. How do you think the majority of schools in mainland Europe and the US manage?

Yes, this, unfortunately. Heads of individual schools aren't going to stick their necks out and abolish uniform,

No, I can’t see it happening. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle. A few secondary schools abolished uniform in the 70s and have not succumbed, but the ones I can think of tend to be high achieving schools very comfortable with their position.

Where there is no uniform and therefore no non-uniform days, there is no fashion parade. Both my DC went to a 6th form which was completely non uniform. The only requirements were that clothes should be clean, not ripped and without offensive slogans. Students rocked up in a range of outfits, mostly based around jeans and leggings. The school achieves good results despite a challenging catchment, behaviour is excellent. It can be done.

I'm not a fan of branded uniforms but non uniform days always seemed to bring out the pretentious overpriced clothes and footwear that children, even in Year 1, would brag about ; think Ugg boots, Nike trainers and the such like.

Of course they do; it’s like dressing up for a party.

I think strict uniform of blazers, shirts is a bit silly now so many offices are casual. I have an emergency jacket but have rarely needed to use it for years and years.

For primary, I don’t think it’s too bad. My daughter loves the gingham dresses and play suits for summer and they work well for us. Most of the boys are in shorts and a polo for infants which again seems fine.

I'm not sure why it was introduced in primary schools, it started in the 90s just with the jumpers which were optional (maybe for school trip reasons).
It was abolished in secondary schools, at least in my area, at a similar time. I know it's been around for a long time now with no signs of going away. It might take the top public schools either abandoning it altogether or going for something much more casual for the 'aspirational' parents to latch onto something else to obsess over.

Well, here's the thing.

I was very lucky to have been on several school exchange trips as have my own children.
Staff at the school I worked at have regularly gone on exchanges to other European schools.

Clothing doesn't seem to be as important as it is here. It's almost like a sort of competition here but children abroad just seem to wear ordinary clothes.

Maybe it's just non uniform day that brings out the worst in us Brits , but it really does seem to separate the children from the ' my parents buy me designer shit from TKMaxx from the ' I'm wearing hand-me-downs.'

This is why schools have , generationally, opted for a uniform.
I don't believe in buying any logo'd clothing at all, but supermarket trousers, multi pack polos and generic school coloured jumpers are a way to go.
Simple, cheap, available at supermarkets that stock the local school colours is way better than allowing parents to decide in designer clothes, shoes etc...

Exactly that what I was saying. So hold your horses and read my post properly. I was asking and implying perhaps the Europeans have a different culture (prideful) and I was merely stating I think we already have an issue WITH uniform and parents coming in PJS so to abolish uniform isn't a great idea!

I'm not sure why it was introduced in primary schools, it started in the 90s

Erm no. I wore school uniform at primary school in the 1960s.

Maybe it varies by area, but I don't think it was common in most state primary schools until the 1990s.

Maybe that’s the effect of having to wear a uniform for their childhood and teen years, likely being uncomfortable and once they made it to adulthood, finally happy they could wear whatever they wanted

Dd went to one of the best schools in Glasgow, it was 3rd in the league tables at that point and the first two were specialist schools.
It had no uniform.

Maybe it's just non uniform day that brings out the worst in us Brits

I grew up in the Nordics and therefore no uniform. Then we moved to China for a year when I was 14 and I went to an international school with a uniform. Never in my life have i been more concerned about what to wear than on a free dress day. I had successfully gone to school 8 years before this and 3 years after this without thinking too much about clothing. When "normal clothing" is normal it's no big deal. When it's special it becomes a big deal.

Parents in Europe do not do the school run in a onesie!

They do. I mean based on personal anecdotal evidence in some countries the general public dresses better. But UK is not in any way unique with leasure wear. But to be fair in many places the kids take themselves to school a lot earlier so parents at school are less of a thing.

I agree with above. Uniforms no longer reflect what children and teenagers wear, shirt and ties, wool jumpers, gabardine trousers/skirts, no one wears that sort of stuff any more.

My ds is also at a none uniform school. I think idea that the children living in poverty aren't known because they are in a uniform is bizarre.. i went to a uniformed school.. we knew who was living in poverty- ill fitting, well worn clothing shows.

I think people think every day is like a none uniform day at a uniform school. It isn't, .. it is pop the nearest piece of clothing ir favourite top.it is actually cheaper aswell. I don't buy school shoes, he wears joggers and t-shirt most days. He does have spd so is actually happier and able to learn.

Yes.
Non uniform day is different, a special occasion so of course the kids want to dress in their best clothes for it.
In non uniform schools that doesn't happen, they just wear normal clothes.
For Dd and her peers it was generally jeans and hoodies with Converse or similar.
There was no dressing up at all.

Don't know about parents dropping children off in a onesie in my part of Europe as the school run isn't really a thing, most children take themselves to school, but the teachers are certainly dressed quite casually, DD's teacher is always in jeans or joggers and a hoodie yet they still manage to work and teach well, and the children dressed in normal comfortable clothing manage to learn well (shoes off as well, just like if they were at home). Casual dress seems much more normal here and it does not make people work less hard or be less successful, that's for sure.

I disagree with school uniform for many reasons that have been mentioned already. But I've added a new reason to my list lately.

I think that strict uniform rules actually contribute to less respect and discipline, as the children realise that the teachers are enforcing a pointless rule and so lose respect for them and any other school rules.

I've just been thinking, I don't actually know anyone who wears a uniform at work. I know lots, myself included, that need to know how to dress 'smart casual' though, so maybe that should be the uniform policy?

I don’t have an issue with the current primary school uniform of polo shirt, jumper/cardigan and trousers/dress/skirt with tights or socks. I don’t think trousers or a skirt with a polo shirt and jumper is particularly uncomfortable. What I do have an issue with is any primary school insisting on logos because they always cost at least twice as much as a non logo option and it’s just unnecessary. My DC’s primary school insists on a logo jumper/cardigan and also now a logo PE shirt. The PE shirt was £7, you can buy a pack of three for that much. The cardigans are £12, again you can buy at least 2 non logo ones for that much.

I also find the notion of logo PE kits in secondary school utterly ridiculous. My DS’s PE kit cost £200 with trainers and football boots added in. They need a rugby shirt for some reason? DS has admitted he’s barely worn it, it cost me £26!

I think that strict uniform rules actually contribute to less respect and discipline, as the children realise that the teachers are enforcing a pointless rule and so lose respect for them and any other school rules.

Yes, definitely true. School rules should be necessary ones. Ones which are important for making sure (well, trying to make sure) that school is a safe, respectful place where teachers can teach and students can learn. Policing uniform is a counter-productive, time-wasting exercise which helps nobody and which can actually interrupt teaching and learning and create unnecessary friction between staff and students.