to think Scott Morrison didn’t say anything wrong?

[Organictangerine]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-61171449.amp

I heard this being discussed on Shelagh Fogarty this afternoon. I don’t think he’s said anything wrong. What do you think?

Of course ND or doable children are undesirable.

🤔

I can see both sides here but I think we really need to stop jumping on people for making a throwaway comment that, yes could be perceived in an offensive way, but maybe it just came out wrong and he worded it clumsily. I don't think he should be vilified for that.

And I say that as the mother of a physically disabled child. I don't feel any less blessed that my child is disabled but on the other hand I would love it amd feel even more blessed if he was miraculously healed one day and he didn't have to go through multiple surgeries, pain, frustration, injuries, intensive physio every day. That's the reality of it.

This doesn't make any sense.

If you replace 'blessed' with 'that', then he would have said "Jenny and I have been that", which is nonsensical.

I'm not 'stretching' anything. The point is that he could have easily made exactly the same point he was trying to get across without having to use any sort of term, word, or phrase that implies one child being superior/inferior by comparison. For a senior politician it shows a startling lack of self-awareness, a poor choice of language, and really doesn't reflect well on him at all.

Trying to play it like he only used that term because it has religious meaning really doesn't make it look any better, in fact, all it does it make him look even more out of touch.

Correct, I am intolerant of religion, mainly because it's still full of dark ages nonsense and its adherents are those who continually put their foot in it by using offensive outdated language that demeans, belittles, and 'others' people they believe are inferior. Well spotted.

And no, I have no need to 'examine my prejudice'. I've examined religion well enough to see it for what it is.

Kind of ironic!!! 🤣

I just wonder if you would’ve been so open with your critique had this been another religion. Always Christianity where people suddenly feel bold enough to say things like this, isn’t it?

Please expand on this

Anyway I read his comment as ‘We’ve been blessed to not have to watch our kids struggle’ rather than ‘thank God we have able bodied children, I’m not sure we could’ve loved them if they had been disabled’.

I can’t help but feel all the in-fighting over terminology and nit picking over people’s well intended words actually detracts from the main mission of improving quality of life for disabled people

(I’m disabled, I wish I wasn’t)

Yes I absolutely would have. I hold all organised religion in complete contempt. Christianity comes up more frequently simply because it's the predominant religion of the English speaking world, but they're all pretty much of a muchness.

Can you not see it?

You've said you're intolerant and unwilling to examine your own prejudices and that religion is "dark ages nonsense" while labelling anyone with a faith as offensive, demeaning, belittling, superior and othering.

Yes.

There seems to be a real desire to assume people mean the worst thing.

People do not always say things as if they had a speech writer, and a talented one, producing their every word and checking it for any possible reading that could be negative. No one can speak that way all the time.

When I take his comments in context of the difficulties, far too many children, adults, families dealing with disability, encounter when seeking support, medical diagnosis/assistance, funding etc. then I do think it is offensive.

I know of cases where parents have their child on a waiting list to see a paediatrician through the public health system and are informed it will be 1 year or more before they can be seen for an initial consultation. That is terrible.

When you are a leader of a country and federal funding is inadequate for supporting people with disabilities then a statement like that is like rubbing salt in a wound.

'Dark ages nonsense' is a concise way of referring to the parts of religion that require suspension of disbelief, i.e. the parts involving deities, magic, miracles, and so on, the parts that most people don't accept simply because they have the common sense to recognise the ridiculous for what it is.

If pointing out that religions absolutely require acceptance of the incredulous and ridiculous, and also that using the term 'blessed' to create a hierarchy of desirability in human beings is 'ironic', then I think you need to go check the definition of 'irony'.

You must be a really special level of thick as fuck of you are unaware of the huge and positive impact ND people have had on society. Really, really fucking thick. This world NEEDS ND people and the incredible technological advances made in the last few centuries would not have been possible without them.

jesus the ableism on this site is beyond depressing.

Should read -

If pointing out that religions absolutely require acceptance of the incredulous and ridiculous, and also that using the term 'blessed' to create a hierarchy of desirability in human beings is offensive is 'ironic', then I think you need to go check the definition of 'irony'

As parent of disabled child I was a bit pissed off with the inference that she's not a blessing. However, I was more confused as to why he answered a question about disabled children with his own wife and neurotypical children. I mean, why even bring his own family into that? They're not relevant to the question and shouldn't have been part of his non-answer.

I think it's very understandable for people to be sensitive about a comment directly relating to children.

But that said, as a very seriously disabled adult, I do find it rather ludicrous to pretend that disability is just a neutral thing in life. I suppose that may be true for some people (good for them, if so!), but living with serious illness and severe disability is really, really hard, full of embarrassment and pain and difficulty. And I say that as someone very privileged in many ways, married and with access to relatively good medical care. At a certain level of illness and disability it isn't society, it isn't anything external: it's the impairment itself, and there's nothing wrong with honestly acknowledging that there isn't anything good about it.

I think he worded it clumsily but we all hope for a healthy child who'll eventually become independent.

I can't imagine anyone would choose to have a child who needs 24/7 care and who'll never become independent.

BTW those families who do have to deal with children / adults with complex needs deserve far more support and restbite than they currently get.

I have a mild disability. My parents cashed in their winning lottery tickets the day they got me, the lucky, lucky bastards.

Scott Morrison can go fuck himself. 🖕

No, you've completely missed the point. The irony is you criticising everyone with a faith for being demeaning, belittling, othering and superior whilst being exactly that yourself. Your criticism of others is exactly what you are criticising others for!

dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/irony

I don’t know. I have a ND child but I wouldn’t take offense from this. For me it’s like saying I’ve been ‘blessed with strong healthy children.’

I’m not saying sickly children or children with a physical illness are undesirable and horrible and I hate them. I’m saying that the ideal for most people is to be healthy and not have to have struggles/medical issues.

I don’t think anyone would choose for their
child to struggle through physical disabilities and difficulties or developmental delays. We all want our kids to have as easy a life as possible.

I wonder if he used the word "privileged" instead of "blessed" people wouldn't be offended?

People do love to squash anyone who says things like that though. Can’t count the amount of times someone has forced their way into a group I’m part of to patronisingly say ‘oh no hun autism is a GIFT not a struggle! We should be thankful.’

Normally the parents of high functioning children or high functioning adult diagnosed people themselves. Very rarely the mother of a profoundly autistic adult who will need care all their lives. It’s very patronising and arrogant.

I should say my son is relatively high functioning, but I still wouldn’t presume to go around saying ‘oh it’s a gift, why are you moaning,’ since I’ve seen the struggle.

No I got that point perfectly well, I just assumed that wasn't the particular point you were making.

Scott Morrison is a prominent politician, I'm not.

If I ever find myself in his shoes I'd like to think that I'd be able to keep my non-belief to myself. It certainly wouldn't have me using ill-advised terms like 'blessed', that when used in specific contexts could be construed as highly offensive.

While I'm aware that I said 'it's adherents' regarding religion, and that could be taken to suggest I meant 'all religious people', what I actually meant is that it's perfectly common to hear someone in a prominent public position say something offensive which clearly stems from their religious belief. At least, I can think of far more of these instances that I can of a similarly prominent public persona saying something offensive which stems from non-belief.

Again, Scott Morrison is in a position where he has a duty of care not to offend people, and if that means keeping his religiosity to himself, that is what he should be doing. My views on religion are neither here nor there, yet I can't imagine how my non-belief would manifest itself in a way that would offend disabled people. Religious people yes, but then if they are going to insist on believing in the ridiculous, then they need to accept that will bring ridicule.