Horse and dog incident this morning

[DrHildegardeLanstrom]

Had quite a scary experience on our morning walk this morning.
My dog and I have crossed this field and the others with horses on many times and have never had any incidents. I have been around horses all my life and understand how they can be inquisitive. My dog is under full control on a short lead and is well behaved around horses.

This morning he was with me on a short lead as normal, and my DD was with me. The field had several horses, all grazing at the bottom of the field well away from the footpath route. As we got halfway across, two trotted over and reached us in no time.
One came up and sniffed my dog very close, which scared him so he barked. The horse instantly turned around and kicked him, luckily a glancing hit which appears to have done no damage.
We turned around straight away however the horse kept trying to kick us (I really thought I was going to be kicked) and was blocking our path. My DD was very scared, so I sent her to run back to the gate and managed to get there myself despite being pursued by the horses.

There is no damage done, however I have never experienced such a thing in 30 years of horse experience. The horse clearly felt threatened by us being there and came across the field.

AIBU to email the yard and make them aware?

SucculentChalice
I'm sorry OP, but I just don't believe your dog was on a short lead.

The OP had a right to be on the public path with or without her dog.
She was not in a random field letting the dog run off lead. So she cant be blamed for a random who decided to use somes property like it was their garden.

fairylightsandwaxmelts i am pretty sure that in rhe Uk cows kill/hurt more humans that bulls. That's even after doing statistical adjustments for the sex difference on farms. Most cattle farmers who I have heard discuss it had a bull but will have a near miss with a cow.

Its difficult though because people will use a feed bucket to catch their horse when its out so to a certain extent horses will be used to this and associate a human in their field with food even if strangers never feed them....same with the kicking. I am no horse expert but have known and been warned about horses who will turn and kick to avoid being caught once the food is gone or if there is no food.....but yes tell the yard. If a horse in their care injured a walker then they would be in all kinds of trouble and maybe the horse too!

You can own a house and there can be a PROW right outside your kitchen window or anywhere else through your garden

Agree to let the yard know.

If it a public right of way and next time there is damage they could be liable. And if they don't know they cannot be given the opportunity to rectify the situation to avoid it.

New forest.... has very few sheep but in the autumn there are HUGE pigs as well as the ponies, donkeys and cows.
Having said that, animals who are aggressive with walkers or cyclists can be reported and removed from the forest

fairylightsandwaxmelts i am pretty sure that in rhe Uk cows kill/hurt more humans that bulls. That's even after doing statistical adjustments for the sex difference on farms.

But that's mainly because it's generally illegal to keep bulls over 10 months old in fields with public access, whereas cows of any age (including cows with calves) can be kept in fields with public rights of way through them.

And if you do have a bull under 10 months in a field with public access, the law states you have to have signage on all gates and access points, so many people won't ever come near a bull when walking out in the country as they'll just avoid those areas altogether.

I would definitely mention to the horse/yard owners. It’s dangerous for people on the footpath and the horse itself if it’s a nosy and aggressive type and prone to approaching people.

People need to be wary about get too close to animals when they are walking across fields though. 100m minimum range I would say, so you have to decide to turn back or maybe scare them off if turning back isn’t safe and you should never let an unknown horse or other livestock animal get within striking range, that’s crazy!

Having known plenty of nosy and bold horses or cheeky youngsters it isn’t always that easy to scare them once they are too close as some will argue back and lash out. Even if it starts out as a sort of playfighting. But that sort of horse shouldn’t be in a field with a footpath for everyone’s safety.

However dogs could easily be a catalyst for a situation where a human wouldn’t be. So I support the right of a person to walk across a field with livestock, but I don’t think they’re should be an automatic right to walk a dog across.

But the thing with bulls is that bulls are managed and handled singly and bred to be manageable and handleable. Cows come in multiples and are mostly managed in multiples so there are herd dynamics as well as individual cow behaviour. Cows which are routinely aggressive have short lives, the same as sheep who won't co-operate with the shepherd and the dog.

Oh, tough one. It's not a FP I would have used with a dog and child. I appreciate you should be able to use it, but sometimes a decision has to be made. I'm Country born and bred and wouldn't take a dog into a horse or cattle field. Adding a child to the mix, kinda limits your escape options if needed. The horse may not have acted that way before, so the owners would be unaware.
We have a perfect horse here, massive but so very kind. Children can swing off his legs, play and plait his mane and climb all over him. He has taught numerous nervous people to ride and loves attention. He stand for ages having photo's taken at the beach with non horsey people and children. Travels miles and loves everyone... until he met someone he didn't! My DH walked a neighbour through the horse field. Horses were at the bottom grazing, peaceful, no concern. Perfect horse spotted the neighbour and charged. He was intent on doing as much damage as possible and would have done, if DH been able to shield the neighbour and push them out of the field. DH is in no doubt that Perfect would have caused a death that day. Horse has never, ever done anything like that before or since. Later we discovered that the neighbour was a disgusting individual where children are concerned, who knows what horses can sense!
Now, I'm not saying this is typical, god knows we've never witnessed anything like it before. But it is possible that the horse you encountered in the field, could have been chased or even bitten by a dog like yours at some point and was making sure he got in first. Luckily, no one was hurt.

The stats were for all land and farmers and family themselves making up the bulk of those who were harmed.

Have to agree that I'd not be walking through a field of unknown horses with a dog and a child, even if it was a public footpath. Too many unpredictable factors, most of all the horses but also your dog and child.
I take my own dog into my horses' fields and they can most def. chase him, it's mainly playing but the horses will approach the dog, ears back and he runs! They are enforcing their territory. It's actually safer to have the dog off the lead in this scenario, the dog will nearly always have the sense and speed to get away.
Would I tell the yard owner, probably, but mainly I'd avoid walking through with dog and child again.

Exactly, which shows that cattle generally doesn't present a major danger to the public. The reason farmers generally get hurt more is because they're with them more, lol. There are also way more cows in existence than bulls, as most bulls are killed for meat, whereas cows are kept and bred, or milked as dairy cows.

There are way more cows in existence than there are bulls, especially over a year of age.

Sorry to derail slightly. Are there rules on cattle with calves in fields that are public footpaths? Near me there is a 6 mile loop that’s beautiful, but I discovered today at 4.5 miles cattle with very young calves in field with a PROW, they were obviously unhappy when I opened the gate and started heading towards me so I had to turn back. The farmer has never had them in this field before and I’ve don’t the route twice a week for 9 years.

It is against the law to put an aggressive and potentially dangerous animal in a field which has a public footpath running through it. There was a case recently where a farmer left a bull in a field and despite a walker and dog being on a lead the bull 'attacked' them - he was held liable.
I would inform the stables and say you had a dog and DD with you and you intend to walk the route tomorrow/next week and expect to be safe.
If you have any problems the Local Authority is responsible for Rights of Way and would probably institute proceedings, since it effectively denies access to PRW. (Which is against the law)
P.S. I live in the country and find some stable owners 'awkward' if not bloody minded.
PP.S. I do have land and animals.

Sometimes I think I live in an alternate universe. You were walking in a field with horses which started to approach. Instead of keep walking you stopped with enough time for the horses to start sniffing the dog. The dog then started barking at the horses, which when threatened with barking kicked the dog.

Your dog acted aggressively first, doesn’t matter if he’s never done it before or not. It isn’t reasonable to expect livestock to not be inquisitive to people in their field.

All the yards I've been at have had a rule that the owners are not to feed their when they are out in the field with others. Feed buckets for catching would be an absolute no. There are nearly always problems if a footpath goes through a field though, caused by the public feeding horses and encouraging them over. Thankful that I no longer have the hassle of the public getting access to my little herd. I'm very massively fortunate to have them at home, and their tracks and paddocks are not even adjacent to public areas.

Yeah... I did think that someone with 30 years experience with horses would have avoided this situation in the first place. It doesn't take much to shoo horses off when they are still a distance from you, just to let them know they aren't invited over.

No, the only restrictions are around bulls.

@JetTail

This seems to be a peculiar thing to the UK. I've never heard of public access to private property anywhere else. I know that UK law is based on Common Law. Common seems to derive from when people had the right to allow their livestock to graze on common ground. I didn't know that it survived into modern day. So you can own a field but have to allow wandering walkers to go through the field? It's seems lunacy!

England is a small crowded country. If we didn't have PROWs across private land, then we would really struggle to walk more than a mile or two in lots of places. Most walkers are respectful of the land and the landowners, stick to the path, shut gates and don't litter.

Lockdown meant that a lot of twats suddenly were out walking in the countryside but thankfully they've all gone back to the pub now or wherever they normally go.

I walked 6 miles on Monday - all across privately owned arable fields. Didn't see a soul

I was nearer to the exit than the entrance of the field so tried to keep going forwards. The horse came straight up in front of my path and sniffed. I certainly didn't stop until then and it happened very fast. Normally horses just watch us go by or ignore us. If they had been directly on the path route as I entered the field, I actually would have not entered the field. But as said before, they were about 50 metres away.

So far I have been accused of allowing my dog to be off lead around the horses, and now of standing looking at them until they got so annoyed they felt threatened. That's ok, I did post in AIBU. However, I know what happened and we did nothing wrong.

The restrictions to bulls only apply to dairy breed bulls and lone bulls. It's perfectly legal to have a Charolais/ Limousin/ Hereford etc beef breed bull in a field with a right of way if its with a herd of cows .

It's also in my view important that we continue to refer to these paths as 'rights of way' rather than public footpaths. Over the years the idea that you have a right to cross over someone's private land expediently to get from A - B appears to have been translated to 'this is a public path and the public can treat the land it crosses as if it were a public park'

No.

I got surrounded by a herd of bullocks once, OP. I never walk through livestock of any kind any more.

Drives me mad though when you've walked 3 or 4 miles and you end up having to go back the way you've come. I fail to see why it's not law to section a part of the field off for walkers if you're using them for grazing. It keeps them safe and the livestock.

At the same time if it is a public path where people bring dogs there should not be livestock in the field so please let the landowner know what happened. oh ffs, where is the farmer supposed to keep their livestock, especially in right to roam areas! Its the countryside, not a theme park!

Definitely let them know. There used to be this issue in a field with a overly exciatble horse around dogs near us and it was moved away from the public footpath. One of the rare occasions when I would actually let my dog off the lead around horses or cattle is if one is making a beeline for her, so she can get out of the way unharmed. I'm glad your dog is ok.

Rubbish. It's not "nuts" at all but perfectly reasonable. You have to know what to look for in the body language of the animals and there is obviously a risk, as there is walking down a footpath next to a busy road.