Horse and dog incident this morning

[DrHildegardeLanstrom]

Had quite a scary experience on our morning walk this morning.
My dog and I have crossed this field and the others with horses on many times and have never had any incidents. I have been around horses all my life and understand how they can be inquisitive. My dog is under full control on a short lead and is well behaved around horses.

This morning he was with me on a short lead as normal, and my DD was with me. The field had several horses, all grazing at the bottom of the field well away from the footpath route. As we got halfway across, two trotted over and reached us in no time.
One came up and sniffed my dog very close, which scared him so he barked. The horse instantly turned around and kicked him, luckily a glancing hit which appears to have done no damage.
We turned around straight away however the horse kept trying to kick us (I really thought I was going to be kicked) and was blocking our path. My DD was very scared, so I sent her to run back to the gate and managed to get there myself despite being pursued by the horses.

There is no damage done, however I have never experienced such a thing in 30 years of horse experience. The horse clearly felt threatened by us being there and came across the field.

AIBU to email the yard and make them aware?

I would avoid a field with cattle as I am scared of them! However as far as I recall it's only certain types of bull which cannot be in a field with a PROW

Its a natural instinct for them to keep push the dog away from the herd

Uh, nope. Some horses will react aggressively toward dogs, most will retreat from the dog at speed, but it's not a "natural instinct" to run up to people with a dog, stick their nose at it, then start kicking the crap out of them. Trying to shoo the horse away is also pretty bloody dangerous advice.

The owner / land owner needs to know about this. It does happen, herd dynamics change, circumstances change (sometimes as a result of people feeding horses that aren't theirs), and horses who have been fine in a field for years can suddenly kick off. But that means the horse needs to be removed to another field, or the footpath needs to be fenced off from the horses. They should take it seriously - nobody wants their horse to hurt someone, or be hurt themselves.

Should not be not can not be thats a big difference.

If a farmer is holding sheep in a field with a right of way she/he is an asshole as the sheep will be constantly stressed with dogs (even dogs on leads) moving through the flock.

If a cow or a horse decide to be "proactive" in removing the dog, they weight more and normally move faster than the average human.
The problem is that the dog can out run and outmanover the cow/horse but is likely to stay with its owner.
The humans being bigger and slower get hurt first.

Even without the dog at this time of year there are a lot of animals just let out to grass and seeing human=nice food and they can be pushy if they think they will miss out.

Its best to move through a field with livestock by going around the field along the hedge.

But that is normally off the public pathway so farmers should think about not keeping animals in the field.

The OP was lucky that neither her nor her daughter were not hurt because the horse did not react as she expected it to.
Turst me its safer to expect them to react badly and be disappointed that watch one decide it it will go through you or around you.

It's really unrealistic to tell sheep farmers they cannot keep sheep in fields with PROW.

I'm guessing you've never been to the Lake District

This is 100% not your fault and I'm glad you've messaged the yard.

Unfortunately horses can spook really easily and it could be (as PP said) that another dog was in the field earlier and spooked them, or that one of the mares was about to foal, or there could have even been a foal in the field somewhere that you couldn't see.

As it's never happened before I would be inclined to think something spooked them but even so, a horse that spooks that easily shouldn't be in a field with public access - a kick to the head can kill an adult, let alone a dog or small child.

Please get your dog checked by the vet in case there's any internal damage.

I was going to say this - sheep are EVERYWHERE here 😂

Let's hope all the people who think farmers shouldn't keep livestock in fields with PROW are happy to go vegan as there would be a big shortage of meat and dairy if they followed that.

Yea, cos farmers don't have enough pressures on their profit margins without giving up all the fields with PROWs running across them 😂

Or Cambridge, where we have city centre cattle that peacefully co-exist with the dogs and bicycles

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/gallery/cows-return-cambridge-commons-summer-20310630

Or Dartmoor @Clymene with sheep, cows and horses roaming freely

If you made all the fields/hills/mountains/farm yards and GARDENS with PROWs across them incompatible with any livestock by law , the upshot would be a perfectly understandable campaign to remove PROWs from pieces of land which are rightly needed for grazing, with the end result that we'd lose loads of our public footpaths.

Before I moved to Cumbria, I lived near Cambridge and this brings back so many memories

And there is a cost to having people walk through a business. Farming must be one of the few industries where random strangers are expected to freely interact with business asset which can look them over and decide to stamping them to death is a good idea.
If it was a crusher is a scrap yard H&S would apply but no need to even stick up a electric fence or have HR run a "These Things Can Kill You" course. 🤷🏼‍♀️

At cost or under cost food has a lot to answer for.

I would definitely take your dog to the vet. Dogs are very good at masking pain and a glancing horse kick could have done a lot of damage.

I'm sorry OP, but I just don't believe your dog was on a short lead. If it was, you would likely have been kicked as well because you wouldn't have been able to manouvure out of the way properly. And why didn't you move away when you saw the horse coming towards you and let it sniff your dog's face, instead of backing away?

At least before making a judgment, I'd like to know the experience of the horse owners in that field regarding problems with people walking their dogs. My friend actually found that some people had driven to the countryside to let their dogs loose in her field one day for somewhere to go, thinking that because it was a large field and the horses were at the top, they were "entitled to". Dog owners do all manner of dumb things and then always claim their dogs are on the lead and didn't cause any problems.

But by all means, have horses banned from grazing in fields now or have them licensed and tested by the local authority or something.

fairylights As it's never happened before I would be inclined to think something spooked them but even so, a horse that spooks that easily shouldn't be in a field with public access - a kick to the head can kill an adult, let alone a dog or small child.

All horses are capable of being spooked easily.

There are loads of accidents involving people walking across fields full of grazing cattle, because people assume they are docile. Often these incidents are triggered by dogs being walked across what is their territory. I wouldn't walk in a field of cattle at all, dog or not, and I had no option but to do so, I would stick to the fence so I could try and climb over it to get away in an emergency.

Yeah, I understand that - I ride and work with horses myself :)

But some horses are definitely more prone to spook than others - there's a reason, for example, why riding schools use certain horses for teaching beginners - because the horses, typically, are placid and relatively bomb-proof.

I do think the dog probably spooked them, but if OP has walked through that field loads of times with no issue, she wasn't to know it was going to be an issue today.

I also dog walk for a living and often take dogs through fields of cattle or sheep. I've only ever had an issue when there have been cows with calves in the field, but I noticed the calves before I went through, so I just turned and walked elsewhere. Cows on their own typically don't charge people without reason.

Very nice looking animals.👍
But then there are the escape artist's who would head off to Oxford just because they could.👀

Fairylights I do think the dog probably spooked them, but if OP has walked through that field loads of times with no issue, she wasn't to know it was going to be an issue today.

Could have been a new horse, could have had a fright earlier in the day from a loose dog, the horses could have been worked up, anything really. I just personally wouldn't walk right through the middle of a field of cattle or horses, with or without a dog, and would stick to the fence edge where possible. I appreciate it isn't always. Nothings ever happened to me but I live in the countryside and thats the rules I always stick to.

But I see loose dogs so often, with almost no recall, I'm just a bit sceptical of all these dogs supposedly on short leads innocently minding their own businesses and other animals have time to come up to them and cause trouble.

That's ok, I don't need you to believe me.

This seems to be a peculiar thing to the UK. I've never heard of public access to private property anywhere else. I know that UK law is based on Common Law. Common seems to derive from when people had the right to allow their livestock to graze on common ground. I didn't know that it survived into modern day. So you can own a field but have to allow wandering walkers to go through the field? It's seems lunacy!

Could have been a new horse, could have had a fright earlier in the day from a loose dog, the horses could have been worked up, anything really.

Absolutely @SucculentChalice - but if OP has never had an issue in the past, she wasn't to know it would be an issue today.

I just personally wouldn't walk right through the middle of a field of cattle or horses, with or without a dog, and would stick to the fence edge where possible. I appreciate it isn't always.

I wouldn't either if it was avoidable, but I've often come to fields with cattle in where the option is to walk 50m across the field, or detour back several miles the way you came, lol. Unless there was a bull or cows and calves in the field, I would cross as quickly and safely as possible.

But I see loose dogs so often, with almost no recall, I'm just a bit sceptical of all these dogs supposedly on short leads innocently minding their own businesses and other animals have time to come up to them and cause trouble.

Oh, so do I. I often see dogs loose in sheep fields (many get shot, unfortunately) but horses can move fairly quickly and if OP was with her young daughter, I can easily see how the horses could get to her before she could get to the gate or fence. Horses (and cattle) can be surprisingly fast when they want to be!

Yes, the general public have to be able access rights of way, and it's illegal for landowners to do anything to block that access.

So, they have to stop the path from being overgrown and if they want to (for example) lock a gate, they need to put in a stile or other means of access for pedestrians.

In Scotland, people can pretty much go wherever they like under "right to roam" laws.

This field is owned by the council and leased to the stables.