Have I been assaulted by a doctor/ gynaecologist? was a gynaecological 'examination' for labiaplasty prolapse felt violated. very confused

[anglewingsn10ps]

Sorry for the long read and intimate details!! I've always been a person that worries about aspects of my body. Decided to snoop at myself down there, after 2 kids, I didn't have a frame of reference and saw, what was in my head, a mess. I didn't know what some 'excess' skin was and thought perhaps I need more surgery than just labiaplasty. Was too embarrassed to see GP and thought I'd feel more comfortable with a gynae. So, I went to a private hospital/consultation for labiaplasty and possible? prolapse. Was expecting to be internally examined but came out feeling violated, confused and more worried about my body than I had going in! Was on my back in semi reclined setting, had barely opened legs and fingers went straight in (no manners, no 'proper' visual examination beforehand). Assumed he was feeling for prolapse etc but felt odd. No explanation during exam, so I asked 'what should I do?' (thinking cough/ strain) I was told 'nothing, you're fine as you are'. Was then asked to lie on left hand side with leg in air. He was stood behind me (my back to him)- he put fingers inside again and told me he was 'checking on this side as that's where episiotomies are normally done'. Felt like he was 'rooting around' up there. I told him I've not had an episiotomy! He explained I have a torn muscle and that's why sex is painful and the penis is going into the side of my leg (demonstrated/assertively poked the side of vagina- good job sex isn't painful! which I had never stated!). He then asked me to squeeze/ tighten my pelvic floor muscles several times around his fingers (still lying on my side) which I was told are very good. Was quoted £7000 for surgery- grade 2+ prolapse and rebuild perineum. From a 'gynaecological' point of view I'm not sure if I've said something to mislead him- therefore appropriate examination/ dialogue if he genuinely thought I had the problems he was suggesting OR if it was a 'sales pitch' gone wrong OR if he picked up on the fact, I disliked him from the start (arrogant) and he was getting one over on me. (I didn't notice if he was wearing gloves or not. Chaperone in the room but behind the curtain). I've since seen my GP and NHS gynae who, after very diff!! gentle 'methodical' examinations both agreed I have no prolapse and surgery is not indicated. I have formally complained but the private hospital did not uphold my complaint (and because of this the GMC aren't interested) supposedly I have misinterpreted the examination, and drs can have diff opinions etc. The only points that the doctor 'learned' from my complaint was to offer a modesty cover and ask patients if they would like the chaperone to be present/inside the curtain for the examinations?! He's been practicing just shy of 40 years! I'm not sure what upsets me more the suggested surgery or the 'examinations'. I've decided I've delivered 2 healthy babies and I have an outie labia and I'm happy with that! Keeping my legs firmly shut from now on and esp away from any knifes! I can't believe the show I'm in. Has anyone worked in gynae that can advise or anyone experienced similar? A solicitor advised I go to the police but I'm not sure about this, the ambiguity and complexity has tormented me for months, does it sound like I've been assaulted? thank you xxxx

@SallyWD thanks xx I was there but even I don't know!!! :-0 X find it odd he claims he asked me to cough & strain and he visually examined me- but he didn't, lying on side my back was to him- he was behind me, not at foot end looking 'there'. Would be interesting to understand what he was supposedly 'feeling'. Hope your prolapses manageable. Thank you for sharing. Xxx

Personally - forgetting what the complaint said - if you genuinely feel like you may have been assaulted - you need to go to the police.

I stand by what I said above it sounds like he examined you badly but I wasn't there and neither were any of us on the thread. I think the fact so many of us have answered which such a wide variety of opinions the only way for you to have closure personally is for you to feel you have answers.

I’m going to against the grain and say that I think you should report to the police.

On it’s own it’s unlikely to lead to a prosecution, but if there were other complaints about him, it might count for something.

leaving a review leaves you open to defamation charges so I wouldn’t do that.

But speaking with the police can be very traumatic. Do you have support?

OP, I think this sounds like assault.

There are sadly many examples of abuse by medical practitioners who have gone unchallenged for decades because they know exactly how to exploit their power, lie and deny, and throw responsibility back on the patient for 'misunderstanding'.

The part about him simulating penetration by a penis using his fingers is utterly chilling.

I'm so sorry. Whether you take it further is a difficult one though.

I’ve had a lot of similar exams and some have left me feeling very violated. The worst were a female gynae who is supposed to be excellent but has a brutal bedside manner that made me come home and cry. Honestly, I think it’s quite normal. Surgeons especially often have a very superior place in hospitals and don’t have very good social skills.

I don’t want to invalidate your experience but I do think IME it’s very common.

I was assaulted by a doctor, although I didn't realise it properly at the time, as it was my first smear, and my boundaries are a bit messed up anyway. It was only when I got my next smear that I realised how wrong the first had been. Anyway, even though I didn't know exactly what was wrong, I felt awful after it - I knew it had been "wrong", but I didn't quite know why. A gynacologist should be well versed in how not to make women feel uncomfortable and violated - their job depends on it, after all! And I totally agree with the PP who said that you are unable to consent to something it hasn't been fully explained to you beforehand. I think feelings of an examination being cold, clinical and detached are normal, feelings of being violated and it being inappropriate are not.

I was assaulted by an NHS male doctor in this setting once, he actually leered at me while he was doing it. I was only 22 so too young to really know what to do. And then another time a similar treatment by a male gyne dont think it was assault but it wasnt humane. Anyway, never again will I let a male near me in that setting. I would walk out the door if I got one and I always say female only. I doubt there is anything you can do about it sorry, these types of professions close ranks around each other, so the predators are protected until there are hundreds of cases.

That’s the same as me after my experience. Wouldn’t let a man near me .

There was a chaperone with me, she was a medical student - she said she knew something had happened and asked if I was OK . I said to do nothing . It does play on my mind that he’s probably done it a hundred times over .

when I told my mum she asked why I’d left a man examine me in the first place, as if it was my fault, so I think it’s an attitude that’s quite deeply ingrained into us sadly .

Thank you everyone. really appreciate your support.

re police...
he's given a different narrative so it'll be 'he said'- 'she said', patient vs consultant over a gynaecological examination. I think I know deep down i'm not going to get the explanation/answers....

it's a shame I dont have a gynae friend so I could explain what happened... see if they can join the dots up ... I tried asking my nhs gynae... understandably he didn't want to comment but felt I would be justified to escalate to the ombudsman. but I have already been told that they will not investigate and advised the police. feel like i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

if I went in with a problem about my arm then ended up with fingers up there it would be so much simpler to understand/ complain/ report.

when a doctor examines you, do they always wash their hands/ use hand gel before donning gloves?

I never checked to see if he was wearing gloves, I assume (hope) he was, but certain aspects about how the consultation flowed make me nervous, but at the time it all unfolded quickly... it was only on the drive home did I start to shake and think was he wearing gloves/ was that normal?

I had what I believe was a weird male gyne. I still think maybe I should have reported him but I think I just tried to block it out. He examined me on a few occasions, I don’t want to go into details but after the first one, I though something was not normal but couldn’t be sure. I thought I must have it wrong and I needed help so I went back. Examinations just felt a bit odd. The weirdest thing was he also insisted on asking lots of questions about sex which were not relevant. He told me to make sure I had sex to meet my partners needs and made some very misogynistic comments. My partner was with me and the gyne tried to get him to agree. My partner shut him down completely. I never went back. I feel bad for not reporting him because he’s probably treating other women who are perhaps more vulnerable than I am. It makes me sick thinking about it now and I’d like to think if it happened again I would report it. I think trust your gut, if you feel something wasn’t right, it likely wasn’t. Only you can decide what to do though. I hope you’re ok and I hate that others have dealt with this.

I'm sorry to hear others have had unpleasant experiences. thank you for sharing xxx it makes me feel really sad to read, really hoping you lovely ladies have been able to move forward despite what's happened- feel free to pm me if you want to offload. you never know could be same dr! (mine nhs/ private and practicing for nearly 40 years) but like others have said, unfortunately suspect there's a few narcissistic rogues out there!!

I had asked my gp to refer me to a female gynae which she did. when I arrived at clinic i'd been allocated a male. I refused to be seen/ started flapping and another male gynae came to apologise for the mix up. i was erratic and upset, I just bombarded him with said experience and I don't know if I look normal down there- need surgery. he was so lovely, I really liked him, he clearly had empathy and he ended up examining me. not once did I feel vulnerable or uncomfortable, I totally trusted him. I'm glad a doctor like him works in women's health. would trust him with my daughter. and he couldnt have reassured me more that I look normal and I really dont need surgery. wish I had listened to my gut first time round. I instantly sensed said dr was an arrogant so and so. assuming my gut is right TBC

AGGHHH - just typed a long reply and MN flipped out and obliterated it.

I had a bad experience with a gynae years ago when I had a miscarriage. It was my first time in hospital. I was just told he was good, did not talk about women like the other doctors did and just had a bad bedside manner. I wasn't happy with the treatment though and took it as far as I could - the complaints procedure was a bit obscure then. Then I reached the point where I had to put it behind me and look after myself.

I also had posterior colporrhaphy privately about 10 years ago. I was not happy with the examination which felt very intrusive, but there are a lot of ligaments and facsias as well as muscles to poke around. It was private but the urogynae was the one I was referred to on NHS. He was not the best communicator but very helpful with talking through technicalities and whether it was worth having the operation or not. I had a list because they are always in a hurry and I think slowly. However, I did not think he being abusive in any way. There was a chaperone in the room with us. Also, I think it cost well over £7K in total (insurance were paying and it was the only thing I ever got out of them so no regrets there).

I do think you are doing the right thing but it is hard to go through. After all, if you knew everything about gynae, you wouldn't be going there for advice in the first place. Take it further if you need, but look after yourself too.

I think that routine examinations like this can offer too many opportunities for abuse - not necessarily overtly sexual. You can just be in the wrong place at the wrong time on a bad day. It is the power imbalance. There are supposed to be safeguards but they don't always work.

Yes, it was

This is exactly my experience as well. I much prefer the private model. But as you say, everyone has different preferences.

I was expecting a digital examination but the dr led me to believe I had a torn muscle from an episiotomy I've never had and that is why sex is painful (I never stated this nor did he enquire) and assertively demonstrated with his fingers how the 'penis is going into the side of my leg'. I questioned if he genuinely thought sex was painful/ torn muscle- why did he poke so hard? (I had told him I had 'no stitches' because he had documented this, so I believe he knew I hadn't had an episiotomy....) I was quoted £7k for surgery but it was not entirely clear to me what the exact diagnosis/ treatment plan was, I asked multiple times for his report to be sent to my GP which was never done. then I have my GP and NHS gynae telling me they cannot find any apparent prolapse let alone a large/ significant prolapse and in their opinions surgery is not indicated.

I might not be a consultant but I'm certainly not daft. I'm glad I have overreacted because that encouraged me to get a second opinion. I think I would have been silly had I jumped under his knife.

I am trying to work out why his denial and different narrative of the examinations is so different to my account.

In contrast I met a very nice smiley doctor who I completely trusted to be competent. and he had great bedside manner too. as it should be.

oh that post by traybakes has been removed?!?!

GMC guidelines, a chaperone should be able to see the examination. but I've had examinations where I was offered a chaperone but declined in the past. didn't bother or worry me not having one watching. only with this experience has it made me question. xx

OP, the more you post about this the more this doctor sounds dodgy AF. I'm not surprised you feel how you do and I think you would be fully justified in continuing to pursue a complaint (although I don't know how).

I'm glad you've had a positive experience with another professional.

I reported it. It was disgusting. I’m hoping not many saw it.

It sounds like a very uncomfortable experience but these things are rarely comfortable. I had an internal ultrasound done by a male gynaecologist and it seemed to go on forever (it was about 10 mins of shoving the thing back and forth with little explanation as to what he was doing/looking for)

I do think they should take more time to explain what to expect, especially if it's not a process you've even through before.