Have I been assaulted by a doctor/ gynaecologist? was a gynaecological 'examination' for labiaplasty prolapse felt violated. very confused

[anglewingsn10ps]

Sorry for the long read and intimate details!! I've always been a person that worries about aspects of my body. Decided to snoop at myself down there, after 2 kids, I didn't have a frame of reference and saw, what was in my head, a mess. I didn't know what some 'excess' skin was and thought perhaps I need more surgery than just labiaplasty. Was too embarrassed to see GP and thought I'd feel more comfortable with a gynae. So, I went to a private hospital/consultation for labiaplasty and possible? prolapse. Was expecting to be internally examined but came out feeling violated, confused and more worried about my body than I had going in! Was on my back in semi reclined setting, had barely opened legs and fingers went straight in (no manners, no 'proper' visual examination beforehand). Assumed he was feeling for prolapse etc but felt odd. No explanation during exam, so I asked 'what should I do?' (thinking cough/ strain) I was told 'nothing, you're fine as you are'. Was then asked to lie on left hand side with leg in air. He was stood behind me (my back to him)- he put fingers inside again and told me he was 'checking on this side as that's where episiotomies are normally done'. Felt like he was 'rooting around' up there. I told him I've not had an episiotomy! He explained I have a torn muscle and that's why sex is painful and the penis is going into the side of my leg (demonstrated/assertively poked the side of vagina- good job sex isn't painful! which I had never stated!). He then asked me to squeeze/ tighten my pelvic floor muscles several times around his fingers (still lying on my side) which I was told are very good. Was quoted £7000 for surgery- grade 2+ prolapse and rebuild perineum. From a 'gynaecological' point of view I'm not sure if I've said something to mislead him- therefore appropriate examination/ dialogue if he genuinely thought I had the problems he was suggesting OR if it was a 'sales pitch' gone wrong OR if he picked up on the fact, I disliked him from the start (arrogant) and he was getting one over on me. (I didn't notice if he was wearing gloves or not. Chaperone in the room but behind the curtain). I've since seen my GP and NHS gynae who, after very diff!! gentle 'methodical' examinations both agreed I have no prolapse and surgery is not indicated. I have formally complained but the private hospital did not uphold my complaint (and because of this the GMC aren't interested) supposedly I have misinterpreted the examination, and drs can have diff opinions etc. The only points that the doctor 'learned' from my complaint was to offer a modesty cover and ask patients if they would like the chaperone to be present/inside the curtain for the examinations?! He's been practicing just shy of 40 years! I'm not sure what upsets me more the suggested surgery or the 'examinations'. I've decided I've delivered 2 healthy babies and I have an outie labia and I'm happy with that! Keeping my legs firmly shut from now on and esp away from any knifes! I can't believe the show I'm in. Has anyone worked in gynae that can advise or anyone experienced similar? A solicitor advised I go to the police but I'm not sure about this, the ambiguity and complexity has tormented me for months, does it sound like I've been assaulted? thank you xxxx

@Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious if part of the examination was unnecessary and was an assault do you think that op should have been able to speak out through the shock, embarrassment, and possibly fear? Because she didn’t say stop do you think that would have been acceptable? I’m quite surprised by all the unhelpful victim blaming on this thread

OP, I think you have been shocked by his manner rather than assaulted. Very difficult to say when we weren't there. Like a PP, I was shocked by gynae physio, meaning I had to do the exercises with their fingers insitu. I never went back. I can see that they wouldn't be able to assess things otherwise though.

I was assaulted by a doctor quite a few years ago (ie he did something totally medically unnecessary/very inappropriate) . I remember realising what was happening to me and freezing .

My GP is 100% aware of what happened (well, my account at least) - said yes, assault and said to bypass NHS complaints procedures as it would be unlikely to go anywhere and to report to police .

I never have as I’m too scared .

I disagree completely that if you lie down or pay that you’re consenting for these things to happen - I consented for emergency medical treatment, I did not consent for him to do what he did .

Just to point out that most private surgeons are also NHS to some degree.

[quote Tilltheend99]@Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious if part of the examination was unnecessary and was an assault do you think that op should have been able to speak out through the shock, embarrassment, and possibly fear? Because she didn’t say stop do you think that would have been acceptable? I’m quite surprised by all the unhelpful victim blaming on this thread[/quote]
Of course not. Don't put words into my mouth. I'm asking a question because if she does go to the police, this will be one of the questions they ask.

thank you for your replies everybody. xxx

I found it interesting a review of the dr came up a few weeks back on a platform/ website that said 'rough with me when he examined me... left feeling mistreated and violated' it has since been taken down though (defamation). so i suspect it's not just me. (and this was after my complaint)

nhs gynae examined me by asking me to cough, strain, he even got me to stand up and still couldn't find any prolapse. he/gp explained 2+ is a large/significant prolapse. maybe said dr could have said this in good faith??

in the doctors statement he explains he got me to cough and strain. he didn't ask me to do either, I would have expected this, it was an alarm bell that he didn't ask me. it didn't 'feel' like an examination for a prolapse (not that I really know what this would entail.... just an educated guess) At the time I thought I was being examined for an episiotomy which I believe he knew I hadn't had because I had told him I had 'no stitches' which he had documented in his notes.

although he examined my RHS vagina (whilst lying down on LHS) as 'that's where episiotomies are normally done'. are episiotomies normally performed on the RHS?

I thought maybe he had got confused, my gp said you can sometimes feel episiotomy scars just inside the vagina but it didn't feel i was being examined 'just' inside. he also explained he did a visual examination... we wasn't low down- looking up my dress. he was stood up- behind me- felt solely like a digital exam. (my gp and nhs gynae- was very apparent they were looking at me/ parted my labia to see entrance of vagina to assess for prolapse).

I think that's why I'm so confused. I was expecting to be examined. Just not expecting fingers to be demonstrating a penis going into my leg etc etc think i was shocked and confused I just lay there. I also thought if he thought sex was painful, why poke me so hard!? I questioned if he was actually trying to hurt me.

it just unfolded in a way I wasn't expecting and I can't work out why it went so far off script when I went in wanting an opinion re prolapse. or maybe there is some gynaecological reasoning- maybe he thought a prolapse caused by a deficient perineum because of a torn muscle/ episiotomy?!?!

I think the fact he has denied what has happened and given a different narrative in his statement doesn't fill me with confidence.

maybe i'll never really understand why the examination unfolded in the way that it did. just so glad i didnt go under the knife. upsets me, had I not got a hubby at home and supportive gp/ nhs gynae telling me that everything is normal, I would have still been worrying that I needed cosmetic/ reconstructive surgery. I've learnt to go to gp with future worries!!! xx

Reading your update, I'd say he behaved very inappropriately. I don't think your complaint alone will change anything, but combined with other people's perhaps could.

I'd write to them again, asking your complaint be kept on the record in case it's needed in future, and reiterating that his examination was inappropriately rough and inadequately explained for both consent and reassurance/comfort of the patient purposes.

I'd leave him a review op.
And shout about the fact this his notes do not match what happened in the room.

This. Did you ask him to stop OP or ask for the chaperone to be in the room?

He is in a position of power and the patient a position of vulnerability. They know that full well. Saying no or questioning the chaperone is not an indication of whether a violation occurred.

I’ve had PCR tests performed more gently and with more consent sought than vaginal examinations. It’s really not ok.

These responses really show how vulnerable a woman is once she is in the position of having an internal examination. Just the point that she has consented to the examination seems to show that the doctor can do pretty much whatever they want after that point and get away with it, even with a chaperone there.

the chaperone (behind the curtain) was a receptionist that had never worked with him before.

wish I knew more about gynaecology- to understand the possibilities more- because I know I'm not going to get the explanation I need. obviously no one can tell me what really happened apart from the dr. because he was there!! but he's denied and given a different account- but why? (I'm thinking going to the police about a 'gynaecological exam' is too scary and pointless.... and what if he has just got it wrong??)

can't work out if...

1. maybe I've said something to mislead him/ incompetent/ poor bedside manner/ examinations and diagnosis in good faith- but now denying/changing tack
2. he thought I was loopy/ clueless and his 'sales pitch' went wrong?
3. he knew full well I didn't have episiotomy/painful sex and the 'checking on this side...torn muscle...penis going into leg' etc was just a narrative to accompany the 'examination/demonstration' so it sounded/felt plausible?

thanks lovely ladies. not the kind of thing I've spoken out about to friends. it's so personal and intimate/embarrassing.

@anglewingsn10ps Are his initials RC by any chance?

@ManAlive24 no theyre not. you bad experience too? xxx

Yes. Although I posted about it here (under a different name) and was also told by the majority that I was overreacting. Only leads me to think there's a lot of internalised misogyny or men posting as women on here. We're not stupid, we know when something is off. Trust your gut x

was this about dr 'smirking' when he induced pain?

i think if I knew 'why' it unfolded the way it did, i could get my head around it. it's the torment of not understanding why i was examined the way he did/ said the things he did x

I'm sorry you had this unpleasant experience. It sounds like he did absolutely nothing to put you at ease and just assumed you had certain problems without even bothering to ask you. However, I'm not sure it counts as assault or that anything inappropriate took place. My examination was similar - except that the gynaecologist was nice and reassuring - but the actual physical examination sounds pretty similar. Prolapses are so hard to diagnose and things can move around from day to day. I'm not sure I'd trust all GPs to diagnose a prolapse. Mine was a

Posted too soon! My GP was hopeless and knew nothing avout prolapses. I had to educate her!! She googled what I said to check I was right. Two very experienced gynaecologists examined me and both gave me different diagnoses. That's just how prolapses are.

@SallyWD sorry for Qs... were you asked to cough strain etc? did drs just use fingers? (speculum?) were dr's looking down there as they were examining you? i've had one dr say 2+ and gp/nhs gynae say no prolapse. how diff were your opinions? xx

Sorry - it was 9 years ago and I can't remember exactly. I think one gynacologist ask me to cough but the other one didn't. I can't really remember if if they were looking down there (I was looking away, feeling awkward!). I assume they did look because don't they need to look for visible bulges at the entrance? I remember one used a speculum, I think one used fingers only. The GP didn't have a clue and just said "You might have a prolapse". One gynacologist said I had stage 1 bowel and uterine prolapses. The other gynacologist said I had a stage 2 uterine prolapse, "moderate" bowel prolapse and a "marked, high bladder prolapse". They were both senior gynacologists but gave quite different opinions.

sorry if tmi- it just felt like rough inappropriate fingering (but I'm not a gynae!). he wasn't looking to see what was happening down there, no speculum, it just didn't feel 'methodical' not sure why checking for a prolapse= sex painful-penis going into leg. felt /sounded bizarre. NHS gynae I had 2! diff speculums, lubricant, fingers, laid on back, then side, then standing up, cough++, strain++. he was at foot end visually examining, when standing up he was under me looking up. very thorough!!! felt entirely methodical- made sense. not once did I feel uncomfortable (there wasn't a running commentary... it just 'felt' right)

@SallyWD thanks xx it's not everyday you have an intimate exam and trying to unpick what happened and if the diff of opinions and 'methodology' was appropriate is very muddling (esp when not a gynae!). thanks again xx

@ManAlive24 trying my best to find a plausible explanation to get rid of my 'gut feeling'. xxx

Although I don't remember the exact details I do know one examination was much more thorough and felt more to me like a proper medical examination. The other one was very quick, just using fingers and "rooting around" (so sounds similar to yours) but he seemed pretty confident of his diagnosis. It certainly does feel sexual in nature when done like that but I feel they do need to move their fingers around and get a good feel of the vaginal walls and muscles. Even if there are no bulges there might be weaknesses in the vaginal muscles that could signify minor prolapses or possible future prolapses. My gut feeling was that my examination was all appropriate. Obviously I don't know if this was the case for you.