RURAL RACISM

[findingthepremise]

So, I live in a predominately white area, an affluent area also. It has become apparent to me that even after decades have passed, the mixed or otherwise non white minority has never developed. I ask myself why? I find that in many rural areas this is the case and I cant understand why. Is having a housing stipulation under the council that requests that only people with family ties to the area can apply to put their name forward for the housing association schemes? is that possibly an undercurrent of racism?

Not sure there is anything wrong with my language. Could you be more specific?

I don't think that is quite what people are saying.

In general many of the people living in rural areas have been there for a number of generations, and the economies in villages and the countryside have a different basis than towns and cities. They tend to be built around agriculture or some other resource based industries.

These are industries that are not easy to expand at the moment and many rural areas have been losing population for decades, even generations, to the cities. Young people grow up and a large proportion have to move into a city or town for work.

What that means is that it can be difficult for any outsiders to move from the town into the rural areas, and find work. There are limited numbers of outsiders coming in unless it is becoming a commuter village or it's a beauty spot that attracts the well-off (which many of the historic residents may resent as it drives up housing costs.)

Given that newcomers of any kind aren't common, newcomers who happen not to be white are also not going to be that common.

Then of course you also have lots of other factors like being close to religious communities, language groups, that make moving away from the city more difficult.than it would be for someone whose language or religion etc is more likely to be found in an out of the way place, and that is likely to affect new immigrants or their kids to a greater degree. I used to know a lady (who was white as it happened) who belonged to the Russian Orthodox church and lives in a very remote area - she could only attend church occasionally as it really required an overnight trip to be practical. Many people don't really like that.

I think that may be the case somewhat. People don't think demographically either.

You can see the same pattern in reverse in countries that are majority non-white. Friends of mine that were a couple - a white man and Native American woman - moved to a country to work which was majority black, in fact the population that was not black was less than 1% and that included Asians, white people, everyone. My friends had to travel for several days by car to get to the rural village where they were going to work, and there was certainly no one else there who was white, and many of the villagers had never met anyone white. They also saw both of my friends as white.

It was a bit weird for them, of course, to live there, and they didn't really ever feel like locals. But it's not like the UK is some weird hotbed of homogeneity compared to the rest of the world.

I wonder if that isn't a cultural thing.

There is definitely a sort of pastoral ideal that exists in UK culture. I'm not sure that is true in the same way in all cultures though. Some seem to have a more urban focus.

Of course there are plenty of white people who would never consider moving out of a city either.

@MangyInseam well if they grew up in the UK, they would have been exposed to such ideals. It's not the case for me, my aunt back home was sniggering that I bought a flat in zone 3 (cos it was her belief that you should only buy in zone 1 or zone 2), guess that's your perspective when your entire country is literally half the size of greater London.

There are shows like escape to the country ...

This is classic denial of rural racism because you, personally, have not seen or heard of it.

You most likely would not recognise it if you saw it right in front of you.

Go read Reni Eddo-Lodge - it will open your eyes in a good way.

@Swayingpalmtrees

carefully Thank you, but I have lived here for thirty years and never ever seen or heard of a single racist incident. It would be unthinkable. Do you live here? Can you confirm where? I suspect not.

---->

No racist incidents because there's no non-white people there? @Swayingpalmtrees

This!

Growing up as the only black or brown child in your village, school, college etc is a big deal, with lifelong effects.

Rural racism is a real thing.

The level of denial on this thread is not surprising - it’s very typical of white rural dwellers.

Plea to the white rural people in this thread: if you want to actually listen, and understand more, and maybe even do better at reducing the harm of rural racism, start by reading Reni Eddo-Lodge.

And if the thought of publicly reading a book titled “Why I’m no longer talking to white people about race” give you the fear, or hesitation, take that as a big sign you really do need to read it.

Ancientgran I’m admiring your dignity in the face of the hostility and racism-denial on this thread.

Omg, seriously?

How much evidence would you need to hear before you accepted that this first-hand account of rural racism might actually be, in fact, rural racism?

being not local is not the same as being not white.

the whataboutery and denial on this thread is typical and if you’re one of the people doing it, take a look at yourself and wonder what is leading you to be the gaslighting racism denier.

How much evidence would you need to hear before you accepted that this first-hand account of rural racism might actually be, in fact, rural racism?

There is no amount of evidence which some people will accept. When all else fails it becomes "you have a chip on your shoulder" as ancientgran has already been told on this thread.

being not local is not the same as being not white

True but when your grandparents were born here and people still ask "but where are you from" and assume you need access to "ethnic shops" it does show how the two are conflated.

the whataboutery and denial on this thread is typical and if you’re one of the people doing it, take a look at yourself and wonder what is leading you to be the gaslighting racism denier

^This. White people falling over themselves to deny and explain away racism is such a good look.

As for communities - I was born into a community which doesn't exist any more as "incomers" bought up all the private and former public owned properties and largely keep them empty. Nobody cares though was it was in a city. Communities being uprooted and dispersed only matters if you are in bucolic (and white) villages.

*reading a book titled “Why I’m no longer talking to white people about race”

Why don't you follow the book's advice and stop opening threads about this every two seconds then?

Do you realise it's very insulting to most people and it does nothing to achieve a real improvement?

Neither say they have experienced any racism, thank goodness

Don’t mistake this for them not having experienced racism

So even if they are saying that they have not experienced any of this, you have decided in your head that they must be lying. Why not believe them? Extremely offensive and gaslighty. Rural people don't stand a chance, do they?

@NoooooCoooooode I’m not denying anything, just pointing out- in the absence of racism specific examples, or even nods to them, in the post in question- that some village folk hate everyone who’s not local.

I don’t class myself as a white liberal since that’s a seen as being a bit too white saviour these days, and I’m not a flag-waving racist. I do, like a lot of white people, find it difficult to keep the right balance- one minute we should see the person not the colour, then we should see the colour and celebrate it- fine, no issue either way as long as non-white people are content. But that’s a blanket statement and you’re not all the same, though apparently we white folk are all the same and all racist?

In the absence of given specific examples many events can be classed as racist, as ageist, as sexist, as classist- maybe the neighbours don’t like your age bracket or your gender, maybe you’re too flashy or too poor? In the case of specific racist examples then that’s unforgivable but there is not racism at the heart of every time a white person disagrees with a non-white person and vice versa.

I've lived all over Europe and we have now settled in a rural village in SW Scotland..... The word insular is an understatement and I'm still shocked when I hear some comments in the pub.

Even my 10yr old commented about the lack of diversity. I think the first non white brit we came across in a city day out over 40 miles away.

"The level of denial on this thread is not surprising - it’s very typical of white rural dwellers.

Plea to the white rural people in this thread: if you want to actually listen, and understand more, and maybe even do better at reducing the harm of rural racism, start by reading Reni Eddo-Lodge."

See this is where the problem lies, you are classing all rural white people in an homogeneous group of racist or sub conscious racists. Asking all rural white people to read up on their bias and if they do not agree it must just be denial and are actually racists.

Sorry but no, many people are sick to death of being informed what we are racist just because we are born white and need educating continually, that does not mean we deny racism exists. But your labelling all white rural white people into one group is no better, than racist white people grouping all non whites.

Infract looking at the top review of the book on amazon, it actually makes me realise I`d rather not read it thanks.

White people feeling insulted when racism is pointed out: tick

white people feeling personally attacked and also generalised when racism is pointed out: tick

white people telling people of colour that the racism they have experienced and recounted is not racism: tick

white people not only refusing to acknowledge that there is racism, but also actively gaslighting people who have experienced it in their lives: tick

I’m white, but the way. And grew up in an almost entirely white area of rural Britain.

for most of my life I thought rural racism wasn’t a thing here, because that’s what I was taught and told, and because I had not “seen” it.

newsflash… it’s real. We didnt “see” it because we didn’t have many people of colour in our community, and those who were here had long learned not to speak about their experience, even in their own family units.

White people are the ones who need to talk more about race, and do the work to acknowledge their own part in structural, and non structural racism.

if we don’t take responsibility and ownership, and do better, it’s just going to keep rolling. And black and brown children will continue to grow up feeling they don’t belong in rural Britain. And black and brown families will continue to experience maternal mortality at five times the rate of white British families.

@profilehopper tick

Someone I know of my ethnicity (and very well off) moved to rural south east England into a gorgeous picture postcard village (1990s) and had dog shit put through their letter box. It almost seemed worse to have that awfulness in such a beautiful place.

It's hard being the only non white face for miles but saying that many Indian origin friends in the medical profession have moved into areas that aren't diverse.

That is beyond gross.
Unspeakable.

A Surgeon’s son at our school lived in a very affluent street and there were racist comments- Envy, I think in retrospect- that he and his family lived there.

There are push and pull factors in all types of migration, that is why there isnt much ethnic diversity in rural villages not because they are unnofficial gated communities that run any non whites out of town.
I can say I have not experienced people voicing racist views in the safety of all white company.
Nowhere is as isolated as it once was, where i live lots of people have lived or worked away in big cities or abroad and experienced more diverse environments before moving "home" when they have kids, definitely not an enclave of knuckle draggers.

I haven’t started my own threads on Mumsnet for years! Who are you referring to?

and as for your next post - you don’t follow the logic of the PP’s sentence. ‘Not saying they have experienced racism’ does not mean they expressly stated that they have not experienced racism.

Shouldn’t get suckered in by bridge dwellers but can’t help myself.

It’s local policy to provide home for young people in the locality because village house prices are so high, councils in urban areas do the same.