Four year olds behaviour so lost

[Queenie6655]

Hello all

Wondering if anyone has been in my shoes

4 year old and three month old

Last few weeks the 4 year old has been so badly behaved
Hitting and slapping me in public
Refusal to do things
Demanding stuff in shops

I'm not the strictest and I fail miserably with sanctions (eg no to treats as a consequence etc)

Any tips please please

@op, you are not alone. My son (6) pulls exactly this stuff in public, and the HUMILIATION. Following for tips!

@Queenie6655

Ok so say it happens few weeks from now

And she is hitting me again
Do i take her out right away?
Hold her hand
????

Sorry just still struggling to think ahead for this one

Personally I’d take her out right away. But I’d do it nicely - I’d say “we can’t stay in here if you are having a tantrum like this, you are disturbing everyone”.

I wouldn’t go back in even if she begged - I’d say “no, we had to leave because you had a tantrum, remember? We need to do X now”.

I’d fully expect another tantrum over that too, but they can’t learn that a tantrum gets you to give in, or you get tantrums at the drop of a hat (or at least we did with DS).

Yes agree with all of this

Like I can't say no!!
Or can't face how she will feel if I say no sorry you can't have to that small bloody expensive doll

The thing is, if they are having tantrums over nothing, they don’t actually feel that upset about not getting the expensive doll. Certainly with DS, his stroppy tantrums are totally different to when something genuinely upsetting happens like his beloved toy breaks. There’s no confusing the two situations. One is a strop and one is heartbreak.

The biggest change we’ve had to buying stuff in shops, which really did build up over time, was to do the birthday list thing. Dd really just says ok straight away

The other thing is concentrate on is talking about behaviour you want to see before you leave. Then if she does it go big on positive reinforcement

Personally I’d ditch the reward charts or time out, but we’ve never used them

Just wanted to say good luck today. Let us know how you get on xx

Be firm now, as I promise you it will make life far easier in the long run.
I work in a primary school, and see the effect that 'too soft' parenting has on children every day. It's not good, and you'll be doing her a favour.
Good luck - you can do it!

I'd do some work on emotions as well as implement some boundaries. My 4yo DS loves the colour monster book and it helps him to express what he is feeling and he feels heard.

Before we go in somewhere I get down to his level and tell him how he needs to before before we go into somewhere and ask him to repeat it back. Then there are appropriate consequences. We don't normally leave places because of his older sister but if you aren't walking nicely with mommy/daddy you might miss out. It feels mean not buying him an ice cream if his sister gets one or making him sit out the playground for a while if he throws stones etc but they learn fast what the boundaries are (and how to be immensely irriating by getting very close to them without crossing them and winding you up). We turn also things into a game. Its amazing how gullible they can be. "Oh I bet you can't get to the gate before me. You beat me! How fast you're running today" etc etc. It doesn't always work and I'm not always the best when I'm tired and stressed, as it takes a lot of energy, but it makes a massive difference if I can maintain my composure!

My youngest was really challenging until about 6 or 7 (he would run off, break things etc) and distraction/giving him a task worked well out and about. I used to draw a shopping list because he couldn't read - clip art would work if you can't draw, and then I'd praise him for how much he helped me etc in supermarkets. Praising and highlighting good behaviour takes a while to be effective but really works

Please don't be so hard on yourself. You sound like you've been through an awful lot.

It's useful to name behaviours with your little one....at the time, and afterwards. So you can help her to give words to the way she is feeling.

So when she's having a tantrum, you say "I can see that you're absolutely furious right now" and once she's calm afterwards, loads of hugs and reassurance. "I could see that you were furious that you couldn't have the horse in the shop. I imagine that felt really unfair for you because you liked it so much/love horses/wanted a present".

Read picture books with her about feelings. Play with teddies and dolls and let her show you how she's feeling. Let her be angry if she is. Sometimes expressing the anger on a teddy is all it takes....she'll feel validated that she's being heard.
Use it then again to reassure her. "I can see that teddy is REALLY upset/sad/unsure/disappointed/angry that he has got a new tiny teddy in his house. I know that teddy's mummy REALLY loves teddy still though, and that teddy's mummy has SOOO much love that she
has more than enough for everyone!

Good luck. You've got this x

You can help manage the expectation for toys better by talking about it beforehand, either by having 'pocket money' or simply avoiding going places where it's harder to say no. Attractions and gift shops go hand in hand so maybe decide in advance how you want to manage it so you don't get caught out.
I like the advice to name the feeling and show some empathy. I don't try and jolly my DD out of strong feelings and she's grown into a young woman with good insight and understanding of her emotions (she still gets stroppy and worked up though!).
Transition between activities is also a good one to have a handle on - I found signposting what we were doing and the timings really helped, we rarely had problems with compliance around things like putting shoes on or leaving, etc. But you do need to help an emotional child to navigate those tricky flashpoints.

@Queenie6655

We had loosley been working on a star chart with treats for 7 days good behaviour

Today she was on day two

But me being an idiot I didn't clearly explain 7 stars ans then a treat
As in 7 days of good behaviour
I did break down the expectations ie no hitting , helping me when I ask for something , no name calling

So I screwed that one up

You didn't screw it up! You're trying new things, they take time to get right.

And what do they say about FAIL - first attempt in learning.

I will say however that personally I think that there's hardly a 4 year old in the world that would behave perfectly for a whole week but maybe that's just my DC

www.janetlansbury.com/2014/07/my-preschooler-is-hitting-me/

I thought this article might help x

Guys these are amazing

So many great ideas

Today been so much better

I'm not being hard on myself for once in my life xxxxxx

Much much appreciated

I'm glad today has been a better day.

Another tip I remembered.... my kids are big now, but on moments when it all went to shit (which it did often!!) I used to pretend I was being filmed for tv. It made me consider how I would want to react to a situation if I had to watch myself back.

I took a moment to take a deep breath and to assess what was going on rather than just flipping.

Well done on today. Step by step. Positive attitude. Keep on keeping on. X

@Chimchar

I'm glad today has been a better day.

Another tip I remembered.... my kids are big now, but on moments when it all went to shit (which it did often!!) I used to pretend I was being filmed for tv. It made me consider how I would want to react to a situation if I had to watch myself back.

I took a moment to take a deep breath and to assess what was going on rather than just flipping.

Well done on today. Step by step. Positive attitude. Keep on keeping on. X

Lovely idea

And thanks so much

Feel less like a failure today xxx

There is a reason for all behaviour, as a PP said I’d look at the route cause. May be struggling due to new sibling, are they getting 1-1 time with you? Do they feel pushed out due to new baby? Has there been any other particular change in routine? Children also don’t hit because they want to hurt you it’s a reflex - doesn’t mean it’s ok to accept it but here are some tips to help.

www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/on-parenting/why-kids-hit--and-what-to-do-about-it/2018/12/04/53da7fd6-f25d-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html

sarahockwell-smith.com/2018/09/28/what-to-do-when-children-bite-push-shove-hit-and-throw/amp/

You're doing great. Keep checking in x

Try validating her feelings first before moving onto what she cannot have do (exception being hitting).

So for us DD (2) will always start shouting to wear a dress for nursery (nursery ask us nit to send them in dresses).loudly and insistently. My response is now, “oh I know you love dresses, they are very pretty aren’t they, maybe we can change into a dress when you come home from nursery, shall we put on the clothes that Miss X said were ok for nursery) Takes a few minutes but she calms down and puts on her clothes. Before that I was having to fight a toddler for a dress.

Your DD is upset about a sibling most likely so if she expresses that upset directly “I don’t like the baby” or she demands attention which you can’t give her at that precise moment just validate it, “I’m sorry mum can’t play with your right now because I’m changing the baby’s nappy, it’s upsetting you” etc.

I would say tantrums are down 80% she’s following instructions more often (might take a few minutes of validating her feelings).

Stop buying stuff, instead of actually dealing with her and her feelings you are chucking toys at her. It won’t fix it and it’s just creating trigger points for conflict.

I am definitely on the crap mum end of the scale (I’m impatient, struggle with the whole parenting thing, don’t enjoy most of it) but actually recognising how my DD is feeling has helped a lot.

Thanks so so much

Yes we do one to one each day for an hour or two
Every day with out fail

And yes the buying of toys on demand is terrible
It's quick fix bad parenting

Wonderful advice here and massively appreciate it xxxx

I just wanted to say it sounds like you’re a wonderful mum and doing a wonderful job. I know it’s easy to think people are watching and judging but honestly, if I ever see a kid throwing a total fit, I usually just wonder if there’s anything I can do to help (usually not but I always wonder!). The adjustment is a big deal, and to be honest, I found the change from one to two much harder than I expected.
Things that work for us:

• give them a task, eg I would like you to help me choose which carrots we will get today
• setting clear timelines: now we are having a snack, and then we will get in the car, and when we get home it is nap time
• put all the things you do with your older one in a box (a special sparkly box with tinsel in our house!!) and we can do all the VERY SPECIAL things during baby nap time as he’s such a grown up boy

But basically- there are a million tips on this thread that are all great. Keep going- it will get better. Consistency is key, be strong and insist on the behaviour you expect. Good luck!