Four year olds behaviour so lost

[Queenie6655]

Hello all

Wondering if anyone has been in my shoes

4 year old and three month old

Last few weeks the 4 year old has been so badly behaved
Hitting and slapping me in public
Refusal to do things
Demanding stuff in shops

I'm not the strictest and I fail miserably with sanctions (eg no to treats as a consequence etc)

Any tips please please

@WeOnlyTalkAboutBruno

I have no real advice for you but I’m having similar with my four year old just now. Reward charts don’t work. She is not interested. Solidarity.

I feel your pain

One of the ladies in the coffee shop said she would watch my three month old while I took my 4 year old out

I had just sat down with a much needed coffee ffs
And she was basically telling me to take her from the coffee shop

@OfstedOffred

she sees an expensive pie i buy it go pick a small toy I buy her a fcking useless teddy 13 pounds

Do you always buy her things constantly on demand?
It seems like shes learned that a trip to the shops means she'll be bought things, and that demanding stuff means she'll be bought it. She is behaving like this because she has learned it works.

The only way to unlearn that is to stop doing it. The first few trips to the shops not buying her stuff will not be fun. Can you plan a couple of trips where your errands arent urgent and if she kicks off, you can immediately cut the trip short and take her home as a direct consequence?

So very true

Great idea

Or also can you shop in a way that's a bit more fun for her but doesnt involve demanding things/buying things? I used to plan to shop at a retail park with a pets at home and tell my kids if they were good, we'd there at the end and look at the animals.

Hi. I have a just-turned-four year old and a five month old baby. My 4yo really hasn’t coped well with the new arrival - it’s not easy and I really sympathise. I don’t have any easy answers but try to avoid situations like shopping where you know there will be issues, and definitely say no and mean it sometimes. It does help.

But mainly, it gets easier I think.. I hope! I’ve noticed a big difference in the last month now that baby can smile and laughs at her sister.

I just keep trying to be firm but kind. Every time she is doing well and being like her normal self I try to give her as much attention as I can and reminders of how special she is to me. To try to reward the lovely behaviour with attention.

You absolutely do not need to buy her things on a regular basis. You can make it clear before you go in that you will not be buying, if she kicks off you leave and do not return. Tantrums are never rewarded, rIf you have to take them round the supermarket then I might reward with a magazine if they behave well (collect it last before you check out) otherwise I never bought my son random gifts. He didn't get a choice in coffee shops he got two options. You must must must follow through on consequences. Giving in ultimately makes things worse. Good luck.

@CafeNervosa @OfstedOffred wonderful advice

Thank you guys

I was half expecting to be shamed on here for being a total push over

We fled d v when she was 7 weeks old and during my pregnancy with her I had to flee multiple times
I often wonder if that is why she flies off the handle

Plus I'm too soft
New baby
Lots of change

Hard going but the good times are great she is super smart and loves animals

Thank yoh all as always
Great help on here xxxxxxxx

@Ionlydomassiveones

You are paying her bad behaviour too much attention. When any young child throws a tantrum it’s time for less attention not negotiation or capitulation. It’s grey rock, cold face, ignore, no eye contact, no verbal and if necessary you hold her hand - or just lift her up and just remove her. No anger, no emotion, no telling off. That’s it. No bloody sticker chart, no bribes or naughty step. You simply ignore. If she hits or bites, you might say a sharp ‘NO’ and gently restrain but nothing else.

When the bad behaviour stops, you return to smiley lovely mummy.

It’s very simple. You totally ignore the bad behaviour (sometimes physically picking them up or holding them) but praise, cuddle, love the good.

They soon learn what behaviour makes them feel good and which doesn’t.

At the moment you’re rewarding every single bit of bad behaviour with attention.

Absolutely agree

Did try this today
But then the lady intervened to try to look after the baby while I take my 4 yr old out

Next time much more stern
Hold her hand
No facial expressions

Well my 4 year old hasn’t been exposed to any of those things and her behaviour sounds similar. So try to put that out of your head. It’s likely a phase.

We did house rules. Things like no hitting no shouting no biting no throwing things etc
A pom pom jar. Rewards for good behaviour, prizes at 10, 20 and 30 pom poms.
Breaking house rules-pom poms went into the sad face jar
DD then 4 started the first day on minus 10
She quickly realised I had a prize drawer and that she could earn them back.
It worked really well for us.

I would cut her some slack as she's basically just been ousted as your one and only baby to playing second fiddle.

Can you give her some more one on one time?

That said definitely don't give in to tantrums, never negotiate with terrorists was my motto.

@Siameasy

We did house rules. Things like no hitting no shouting no biting no throwing things etc A pom pom jar. Rewards for good behaviour, prizes at 10, 20 and 30 pom poms. Breaking house rules-pom poms went into the sad face jar DD then 4 started the first day on minus 10 She quickly realised I had a prize drawer and that she could earn them back. It worked really well for us.

Fantastic

Love this !!!!

Tha k you

Thanks
So so helpful

Every single one of you

*So todays example
On a coffee shop she sees an expensive pie i buy it
She doesn't want it then
She spots a horse in the gift shop 30 pounds I say no it's not for sale go pick a small toy
She begs and begs
Shop owner steps in and says sorry this toy is reserved for someone else
So she starts hitting me
EVERY FCKER IN THE GIFT SHOP WATCHING US
5 mins later I get her out

She begs to go back in
We do
I buy her a fcking useless teddy 13 pounds*k

If you read this back to yourself, can you see how wrong it is?

You are rewarding her atrocious behaviour -SHE HIT YOU - with a teddy bear!

So she has learnt that hitting you equals a reward. So guess what? She will do it again.

If my child had done that they would have been taken out of the cafe straight away and told the reasons why we were now going straight home and there wouldn't be any TV /her favourite usual activity that day as a punishment for hitting.

There is no way on earth I would have bought them anything at all. Not even a 50p lolly, after she had hit you.

She has learnt that tantruming and whinging means you give in. And now she hits you to get her own way.

Please put a stop to this because you've made a rod for your own back and it will only get worse and by then it will hurt more.

@Queenie6655

Guys these are amazing

So todays example
In a coffee shop she sees an expensive pie i buy it
She doesn't want it then
She spots a horse in the gift shop 30 pounds I say no it's not for sale go pick a small toy
She begs and begs
Shop owner steps in and says sorry this toy is reserved for someone else
So she starts hitting me
EVERY FCKER IN THE GIFT SHOP WATCHING US
5 mins later I get her out

She begs to go back in
We do
I buy her a fcking useless teddy 13 pounds
We went In for a coffee

So almost 17 quid down and huge out of control tantrum

I wanted to get her back to car asap and she totally refused so had to take her back in as was causing scene and I had baby with me

I was witness to a little boy (about 3 or 4) having a gigantic meltdown in a large store once. His mother didn’t say a word, just let him scream, yell, rant and rave. As she finished paying, instead of leaving the store, she moved the trolley to the front of the store & let him continue his meltdown. I’ve never seen a kid freak out like that little boy, and his mum just stayed totally calm. She must’ve had nerves of steel — it was a sight to see, both the level of freak out of the little kid and the stoicism of the mum. She was awesome.

[quote Queenie6655]**@Duracellbunnywannabe* @TheWayTheLightFalls*

Thanks fab ideas

Yes my little girl is 3 months old
Plus my 4 year old is out of control at the time of a full moon

I'm way too soft

I do try to set the boundaries every trip
Best behaviour please
You can pick something small if you are well behaved
Only pick fruit please

Never seems to work [/quote]
She is only 4 and asking for best behaviour is too vague. You need to tell her exactly how to behave so in the library ‘walk and use in door voices’ and in shop ‘stay close to me and we are only buying the things on our list’.

Start tomorrow a new day
My DD was awful around 3.5-4 just before starting school. I felt like all we did was argue.
Really pushing boundaries. They are crying out for boundaries. After a while honestly you will feel really powerful holding the line. My DD is 7 now. She knows I won’t let things go and that I will follow through.
Also we made a chart to do with her morning routine where she could stick the Velcro sticker on once she had done the task as she was awful at getting ready. She earned pom poms for that too. If you’re not crafty you can buy charts

@Queenie6655

Guys these are amazing

So todays example
In a coffee shop she sees an expensive pie i buy it
She doesn't want it then
She spots a horse in the gift shop 30 pounds I say no it's not for sale go pick a small toy
She begs and begs
Shop owner steps in and says sorry this toy is reserved for someone else
So she starts hitting me
EVERY FCKER IN THE GIFT SHOP WATCHING US
5 mins later I get her out

She begs to go back in
We do
I buy her a fcking useless teddy 13 pounds
We went In for a coffee

So almost 17 quid down and huge out of control tantrum

I wanted to get her back to car asap and she totally refused so had to take her back in as was causing scene and I had baby with me

She begged to go back in and you took her in!!! Lesson learned - if I beg hard enough Mum will give in!

Sorry but I think that your DD needs some clearer rules: "We are going to the shops now but we are not going into the toy shop/gift shop today. We are going to get some (e.g.) potatoes - it would be a real help if you could hold the bag for me and pick out the best ones. Perhaps you could bring your little bag and be my helper etc. etc. etc."

Give her a role, a purpose rather than her just being someone who gets taken along to these outings.

Also, talking about money often helps. "This is how much money we have today - we have to get x ,y, and z so we can have some food for tea - let's see what we can get. Of course paying by card rather scuppers that ploy! - but if you tried a bit of cash shopping and involved her that sometimes helps - not so she can see there is not enough money left for expensive toys, but simply so she is involved.

Getting inside her mind - or trying to! - often helps. E.g. "Oh lord we are going out again, how boring - what can I get out of it? - ah, I know let's drag Mum into the gift shop and see what I can get!! The baby has lots of new things, so why shouldn't I?" Telling your DD what the limits and boundaries of the trip are, and involving her might help a bit.

It may be that coffee shops are not on for a while - maybe she is too little. Trips out with pre-schoolers need to be ones that they will enjoy; ditto holidays. For a while most of your activities will need to be child-centred - in the sense that they are things they will definitely enjoy - park and swings, whatever - it makes for an easier life - which is what you need at this stage of parenting.

And never forget: if your OH had become besotted with another woman and behaved as though you should not mind, I think you might feel like hitting him! This is where child number one is with the new baby.

Good luck.

Don't offer choices , you choose for them. If they don't eat what they are given they don't eat.

Don't give in to tantrums. I learned to stand over the tantrumming child with my arms folded, watching them carefully in case they might harm themselves. At first it seemed to take forever but when you don't try to talk or cajole them into stopping they get over it quite quickly. Once they were quiet I just took their hand and went to the next department I wanted to visit. Its surprising how much support I got from strangers..
Complete your own tasks first. If you promise them a (small) treat for good behaviour stick to that. Poor behaviour =no treat.
Dont let their poor behaviour make you feel embarrassed
Praise them when they do well.
Involve them in caring for the baby
Give them undivided attention when the baby naps or goes to bed
Tell them how important they are to you.
Don't be too hard on yourself

@LifeIsBusy

I'd maybe look back at the route of the issue... Is he not acting out and regressing because of a new sibling in the house? Totally expected behaviour and just looking for that additional security as it's a massive change for them. Ignore the bad behaviour, shut it down, say no but don't give it any more attention then flip it round and give him attention for something that is good.

This.

All behaviour is communication, yes you can gently stop it (literally block the hits) but also try to get to the bottom of their feelings. It's clear this child is struggling at the moment.

Wanting toys - is that not normal? Maybe try to avoid toy shops if it's getting to you.

Refusing to do things - you haven't given us much to go on, but again this is not uncommon at this age.

I don't agree with others saying harsh consequences and more stern discipline from you is what they need.

I think they need to know they are still loved, they need firm but kind boundaries, and they need to know they are validated.

I suggest:

1 on 1 time doing what they want to do

Empathising when they want x toy and using fantasy "yes that's so cool, it's hard not having it, wouldn't it be great if we could just have any toy we wanted"

Try problem solving for refusing to do things. The book How to Talk so Kids will Listen is good.

If they are being rude, you could say "I like it better when you ask like this...."

That’s one cross 4 year old. How dare you have another baby????? You could be trying to replace ME!!!!!
She will get over it. Things will get better.
Your child lives her baby sister, she just can’t put into words the pissed off feeling that she’s not the baby now. This baby’s here and she’s staying. ( I noticed this as a nursery class teacher, the behaviour often kicked in when they realised this baby was a permanent feature)
If you can do activities with her alone, do this. Just short things, Decorate cakes, make pasta pictures, plant some seeds. Just something where it’s just you two.
For just a month or so it might be good to avoid situations you know set her off, toy shops for example. Just to break the cycle.
This will pass.

@tkwal @Mischance
Both posts are so useful thank you

And so very true
I bloody give in

Was also about to pay the 30 quid for the stupid toy to calm her down
Wtaf

@Xpologog

That’s one cross 4 year old. How dare you have another baby????? You could be trying to replace ME!!!!! She will get over it. Things will get better. Your child lives her baby sister, she just can’t put into words the pissed off feeling that she’s not the baby now. This baby’s here and she’s staying. ( I noticed this as a nursery class teacher, the behaviour often kicked in when they realised this baby was a permanent feature) If you can do activities with her alone, do this. Just short things, Decorate cakes, make pasta pictures, plant some seeds. Just something where it’s just you two. For just a month or so it might be good to avoid situations you know set her off, toy shops for example. Just to break the cycle. This will pass.

@Xpologog beautifully worded

Thanks so much

Was really kicking myself today xxxxxx

Yes definitely try to do stuff just you and her lots of positive messages maybe take her for lunch or dinner just because you love her
my DD loved a greasy spoon lol still does

@theamericanbream
Farcical isn't it

Totally agree

And it ends today
No more softly softly

Just firm and kind with clear boundaries
Let the tantrum pass and stay calm

People can watch if they want I need to just forget that and deal with the behaviour