to think that it's not safe to leave sleeping toddler alone outside house in pushchair?

[Brumrose]

My mother and me just had a massive fight.

I have a 20 month old toddler and an 8 week old baby. My mother is staying with me at the moment to help me out after the birth, which I'm massively thankful for.

My mother has been taking my toddler son out for a walk and came back to "charge her phone and drink a coffee". She wanted to leave again afterwards, taking him for another walk, so she left him outside in the pushchair sleeping.

I then said:"Can you please not leave him unattended outside the house?" I was sick the whole night, I have had a vomiting bug for the last few days, was settling my crying baby and was still walking around in my underpants in the house. So I couldn't really go to the front door to stay with my son.

My mother then called me" paranoid" and said I watched too many crime shows. This resulted in us having a massive fight and I told my mother if she takes my toddler out, she has responsibility for him.

In the end, she sat by the open door on a chair and had her coffee there.

I am just wondering, is she right? Am I paranoid?

For the record, we live in Birmingham. It's a nice area where families live, but with any bigger city, it has bad areas just adjacent to ours.

My toddler was strapped in, but I'm worried that an opportunist was going to snatch him.

I don't think you're being OTT she shouldn't be leaving him outside where she can't see him

This used to be really common and is still usual in eg Scandinavian countries. A back garden would probably be fine imo but no way would I have left my dc alone out the front by the street!

This is a generational thing- in 1970 people happily left their babies in prams outside shops etc, just as these days you might leave a dog outside.

Times change, however, and these days it’s not generally seen as safe. Whether that’s because
It’s genuinely more dangerous now or because we have a different attitude to risk, who knows? But as it’s 2022 and not 1970, YANBU.

My toddler sleeps outside everyday... In the back garden!! I would never feel comfortable with her out the front door.

How big/secure is the garden? And how long was she leaving him for? I'd leave the baby in the garden to nip inside and get something, but not for long. I think drinking tea in the hall is fine though.

Definitely not unsupervised out the front. In secure back garden where you have line of sight, sure. I used to leave baby DD asleep in garden after walks sometimes but I could always see pram.

It used to be quite common to have babies sleeping in prams outside the front door and neighbours would all look out for each other so I wonder if that's how your mum grew up or something. But those were quite different times!

Outside the front of the house?...totally not ok if so
If at the back and it's closed off then I don't see the issue

Back garden is definitely fine, and front garden would really depend on the side to me. Right by the street then probably not, but a big leafy set back front garden isn’t that bad.

Definitely used to be much more common place.
My baby sleeps a lot better outside in the pram, but out the back.

But why not leave a child outside asleep in thier pram ...please ask yourself this. There are no more child abduction now than 50 years ago, in fact when was the last child taken by a stranger, that you know of ? It's our perception that has changed because of social media. I am guilty of this too, but I really try and fight it ...because the facts don't match to reality.

It used to be very common for babies to be left out the front in the pushchair sleeping but there were and still are people with issues who could see an opportunity to take a child and do it.
I'm in brum and wouldn't do this with my son, I feel bad if I need to run back into the house to grab something I forgot and he can still see me at the front door. It's double quick time, not out of my sight but still feel bad.

@MsChatterbox

My toddler sleeps outside everyday... In the back garden!! I would never feel comfortable with her out the front door.

Same. And the baby

No, no, no! The chance of him being snatched are small but there is still a chance and it's not a risk worth taking because you can't be arsed to take the pram into the house

There's not a chance in hell I would leave a toddler unsupervised outsid the front of the house. That's neglect, plain and simple.

It's not common practice nowadays, but I don't think it is unsafe to leave a child asleep outside. Abductions aren't any more common now than they used to be and as long as you don't live on a busy road, the fresh air is probably good for quality of sleep.

No, not ok

He was left on our drive, not in the back garden.

It's definitely a generational thing, I believe. My mother is 62.

She is from a village, where she still lives. It used to be a small village, but has grown a lot over the last 20 years.

My sister also lives there and I remember an incident where my mother left my nephew unattended in the pushchair outside, while she went inside a bakery.

I remember that my sister was very annoyed with my mother when she heard that.

The likelihood that he will be abducted is probably small, but I felt anxious when he was outside alone.

It really depends on if he was in the front yard or the backyard and how secure the yard is. A backyard that's fenced in or otherwise secluded is probably fine. Front yard on the street with no fence or anything, no.

I had many many fights with MIL about this. It is indeed a generational thing.

Agree with pp though, in a secure back garden is one thing (though I refused this as well until DC were about 9 months old, which was what caused the arguments with MIL). Not outside the front though!

I don't think it's abduction I'd be worried about particularly, more something like baby waking up and being upset, a strange dog bounding over and jumping up, neighbours thinking I'd abandoned her outside, etc. I think not supervising such a young child in an outside, insecure environment isn't really great parenting.

You’re not wrong, she is

It's normal in some other countries, but I wouldn't do it in the UK.

No - too many things could go wrong. As pp said baby could wake / not heard / distressed. Random dog could wander into driveway and potentially bite baby, neighbours kids could come and investigate ...

It's not the size of the risk that's important here, but the consequences. So whilst the chances of someone stealing your baby are probably pretty small, the consequences are unthinkable. It's not necessary, ie forced by circumstance.
This is why she should not do it.

An opportunistic kidnapper is so unlikely that it's barely worth considering. But a hundred other quite-likely things can go wrong with an unsupervised toddler, even one who's strapped in.

Mine all slept outside in the back garden, I wouldn't have left them on the front though.