AIBU to think that lockdown does not make it ok to let preschoolers bully others?

[Anon778833]

www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/20035030.ofsted-tells-worcestershire-nursery-requires-improvement/

Ofsted has found a nursery in my local area to be inadequate because the children were observed to be pushing, shoving and snatching toys off other children. I think that Ofsted was right to pull up the nursery on this. It’s bullying and should be corrected.

However, certain parents seem to feel that this sort of behaviour should not be corrected by the nursery and ‘it’s how kids learn’ apparently it’s perfectly normal for toddlers to behave like this because of lockdown(!) Well I have a 2 year old and she doesn’t do this and I have a zero tolerance policy on this sort of behaviour for obvious reasons.

It’s completely different if the child concerned has SEN, obviously. However, I’m fed up with ‘cause covid’ being used as an excuse for everything from shoddy workmanship to poor parenting and turning a blind eye to bullying. It’s normal for 2 year olds to sometimes display unacceptable behaviour, but if you don’t correct it you’re the one who’s wrong imo. And certainly, a nursery is in such a situation!

Couldn't agree more OP.

Of course, we need to make some allowances for children to learn and to be corrected. Without proper socialisation over the last two years this could take a little more time for them to learn, which is by no means ideal but is understandable.

But yes, I cannot stand the "cos Covid" brigade. YANBU.

The article doesn’t mention covid or lockdowns at all let alone link it to behaviour.

Also as a veteran of working in the early years I can assure you that small children do push, snatch and bite. Of course it does need to be deal with in an appropriate manner but people are right when they say it is a developmental stage and part of a learning process,

It isn't bullying. You're always going to get a mix of opinions on children's behaviour, but at least in this case all of the professionals agree and are working towards improvement.

The article says the issues with this nursery are Staff under performance, need for improved supervision and a lot of changes in management.

It says squat all about poor parenting, Covid or lockdowns.

Have you linked to the correct article?

Well it is pretty normal behaviour. Not all children do it, but it's pretty common for toddlers to push and shove and snatch toys! The issue seems more that it wasn't being supervised or responded to adequately, not that it was happening in the first place. There's no nursery on earth where there isn't some pushing, shoving and snatching, nothing to do with Covid.

The faults pointed out are very clearly with the staff and management, and the level and quality of supervision provided to the children. Not the children themselves, or their parents, or the pandemic

Preschoolers aren't bullies, by the way. Their brain development precludes it. It's pretty toxic to apply a label like "bullying" to developmentally normal behaviour like shoving and snatching. It also says absolutely nothing about the parenting they've received, other than that they're normal children displaying age-appropriate behaviour.

Ofsted has found a nursery in my local area to be inadequate because the children were observed to be pushing, shoving and snatching toys off other children.

This isn’t the case OP, have you actually read the article and the Ofsted report? The inspector did observe this behaviour but it isn’t the reason that the nursery need to improve,

2 year olds aren't 'bullying' Jesus wept. Congratulations on having a perfectly behaved 2 year old

I'm sure there's more to the inadequate rating, its normally to do with management.

Also the argument that because your child doesn't do it it's a) not normal behaviour and b) a sign of your excellent parenting is dubious at best. Normal is a massive spectrum, and with very young kids it's often just as much about temperament and luck v your parenting skills. Some kids push and shove, some don't. Some kids bite, some don't. Some have tantrums, others don't. All those behaviours are normal in 2yos. My daughter isn't a hitter or pusher, but some of her friends have been through phases of that and it was certainly nothing to do with deficient parenting.

@MajorCarolDanvers

The article says the issues with this nursery are Staff under performance, need for improved supervision and a lot of changes in management.

It says squat all about poor parenting, Covid or lockdowns.

Have you linked to the correct article?

People who commented on the article were saying that the nursery should let the behaviour go because it’s ‘normal’. How can children learn what appropriate behaviour is if they are not taught?

As per usual, people don’t read what I actually said.

1. 2 year olds don’t naturally know you don’t push and snatch so you teach them how to behave properly. Otherwise it does turn into bullying.

1. My daughter isn’t perfectly behaved which is why I set boundaries as to what’s acceptable behaviour. Therefore she doesn’t go around shoving other people or snatching. I’d be mortified if she was pushing and snatching and the nursery staff stood by and did nothing.

@Hugasauras absolutely spot on 🙌 well written.

I have a 20 month old, she doesn’t really do any of that either, bar maybe the occasional snatch. But I’m aware that’s situational, personality, environment dependant etc and I don’t get smug about it. So sick of reading posts like the @MondaysChild7 - bullying from a 2 year old? Really?!?

@Hugasauras

Also the argument that because your child doesn't do it it's a) not normal behaviour and b) a sign of your excellent parenting is dubious at best. Normal is a massive spectrum, and with very young kids it's often just as much about temperament and luck v your parenting skills. Some kids push and shove, some don't. Some kids bite, some don't. Some have tantrums, others don't. All those behaviours are normal in 2yos. My daughter isn't a hitter or pusher, but some of her friends have been through phases of that and it was certainly nothing to do with deficient parenting.

Again, it's not the behaviour itself that is abnormal. I've known plenty of biters. What's abnormal is a nursery or a parent who thinks they don't need to correct it.

But how are we meant to know what the comments say? There are two on the article itself: one has been deleted and the other is nothing to do with the topic subject matter, so I guess you mean somewhere on Facebook or similar?

It's obviously not being accepted as it's been reported on by Ofsted and they're making improvements, so who is accepting it? Random people on FB?

@Hugasauras

But how are we meant to know what the comments say? There are two on the article itself: one has been deleted and the other is nothing to do with the topic subject matter, so I guess you mean somewhere on Facebook or similar?

It's obviously not being accepted as it's been reported on by Ofsted and they're making improvements, so who is accepting it? Random people on FB?

The parents of the children at this nursery are complaining on the Facebook page that they think it’s unfair that the report mentions a lack of responding to inappropriate behaviour. They go on to say that no child behaves well if they were born in lockdown. And that children need to push and shove each other to learn about socialisation. I disagree.

I can’t link to the actual page because it has peoples names on - surely that’s obvious?

My point is that people use Covid and lockdowns as an excuse for everything.

OP do you know how the behaviour was dealt with by staff? I can only assume you have some kind of insider knowledge of this because while the report does state they observe this behaviour, they also report the staff encouraging kind hands and reinforcing behaviour expectations during circle time so while their approach has been found to need improvement that is very different to you boldly saying that the nursery staff do nothing.

Toddlers don’t ‘bully’.

@Thesearmsofmine

OP do you know how the behaviour was dealt with by staff? I can only assume you have some kind of insider knowledge of this because while the report does state they observe this behaviour, they also report the staff encouraging kind hands and reinforcing behaviour expectations during circle time so while their approach has been found to need improvement that is very different to you boldly saying that the nursery staff do nothing.

Some of the staff obviously don’t respond to the behaviours, otherwise why would it be mentioned? It must have been observed by the inspector. I should imagine that some of the staff are responding whilst others are not.

Ahh can you point out where it says that some staff do nothing in the report please? I only skimmed it so maybe I missed that part?

Someone who describes a 2 year olds behaviour as bullying doesn't understand child development. It is entirely normal for a very young child to think only of their own needs and wants and getting them met. They then learn over time with the support of adults how to share and behave cooperately with others. Two year olds are at the early stage of this.

@Sleepyblueocean

Someone who describes a 2 year olds behaviour as bullying doesn't understand child development. It is entirely normal for a very young child to think only of their own needs and wants and getting them met. They then learn over time with the support of adults how to share and behave cooperately with others. Two year olds are at the early stage of this.

2 year olds are not bullies. That’s not what I said. I said that pushing and snatching shouldn’t be regarded as ‘normal’ and something you don’t address. Otherwise it does become bullying behaviour.

Presumably this nursery takes children right up to preschool so the report will be talking about children up to the age of 4.

It is normal in 2 year olds. It is common, nothing out of the ordinary behaviour.

@Sleepyblueocean

It is normal in 2 year olds. It is common, nothing out of the ordinary behaviour.

So you think it’s ok for the nursery staff to ignore it?

My daughter went through a phase of trying to pull my hair or her sisters hair if she couldn’t get what she wanted. I dealt with it kindly but firmly so now she doesn’t do it any more.

Also, as I said, it would appear to be children up to the age of 4 displaying this behaviour.