AIBU to think that lockdown does not make it ok to let preschoolers bully others?

[Anon778833]

www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/20035030.ofsted-tells-worcestershire-nursery-requires-improvement/

Ofsted has found a nursery in my local area to be inadequate because the children were observed to be pushing, shoving and snatching toys off other children. I think that Ofsted was right to pull up the nursery on this. It’s bullying and should be corrected.

However, certain parents seem to feel that this sort of behaviour should not be corrected by the nursery and ‘it’s how kids learn’ apparently it’s perfectly normal for toddlers to behave like this because of lockdown(!) Well I have a 2 year old and she doesn’t do this and I have a zero tolerance policy on this sort of behaviour for obvious reasons.

It’s completely different if the child concerned has SEN, obviously. However, I’m fed up with ‘cause covid’ being used as an excuse for everything from shoddy workmanship to poor parenting and turning a blind eye to bullying. It’s normal for 2 year olds to sometimes display unacceptable behaviour, but if you don’t correct it you’re the one who’s wrong imo. And certainly, a nursery is in such a situation!

So you think it’s ok for the nursery staff to ignore it? I ask again, please can you refer me to where this was observed by Ofsted?

PS. It isn’t unusual for 4 year olds to push and shove either,

Lol, your single two year-old having not yet gone through a pushing and shoving stage does not mean this is not a normal phase of development or that you’re a wonder parent. You won’t be a terrible parent if she goes through a shoving stage either.

"So you think it’s ok for the nursery staff to ignore it?"

The staff should support the children to learn to share and behave cooperately with other children. Some children will take longer than others to learn just as some children walk later and talk later than others.

Early years staff are on their knees
Managers are burnt out and suffering from stress
Staff are leaving in droves
Recruitment is nigh on impossible
There is a real crisis in early years at the moment and I can’t see it getting any better soon, all the staff with the skills and knowledge are leaving in droves

@Sleepyblueocean

"So you think it’s ok for the nursery staff to ignore it?"

The staff should support the children to learn to share and behave cooperately with other children. Some children will take longer than others to learn just as some children walk later and talk later than others.

I agree.

Good luck with your perfectly behaved daughter. I too was once a smug mother to a PFB. That's until I had my DS who made me realise no 2 children and the same and some children are more rambunctious! Unfortunately I imagine if my son was at your daughter nursery you'd probably have an issue with him as he is a boisterous little fella even though he is always shown right from wrong. It really is part of learning and to call it bullying is really silly

@Thesearmsofmine

This isn't about Ofsted saying the nursery does 'nothing'. It's about parents who think that doing nothing is a reasonable response for a nursery.

@dollydimple123

Good luck with your perfectly behaved daughter. I too was once a smug mother to a PFB. That's until I had my DS who made me realise no 2 children and the same and some children are more rambunctious! Unfortunately I imagine if my son was at your daughter nursery you'd probably have an issue with him as he is a boisterous little fella even though he is always shown right from wrong. It really is part of learning and to call it bullying is really silly

I'm not 'smug' I've got 4 children. Clearly you've not bothered to even read all of my posts.

[quote MondaysChild7]@Thesearmsofmine

This isn't about Ofsted saying the nursery does 'nothing'. It's about parents who think that doing nothing is a reasonable response for a nursery.

[/quote]
But you have accused the nursery of doing nothing to deal with unwanted behaviour several times on this post. I’ll remind you of what you have said below

*I’d be mortified if she was pushing and snatching and the nursery staff stood by and did nothing.

What's abnormal is a nursery or a parent who thinks they don't need to correct it.

Some of the staff obviously don’t respond to the behaviours, otherwise why would it be mentioned? It must have been observed by the inspector. I should imagine that some of the staff are responding whilst others are not.

So you think it’s ok for the nursery staff to ignore it?*

Nobody thinks that pushing and shoving etc is desirable behaviour, however it developmentally normal behaviour and actually covid will have had an impact on social development. How do you know these parents do nothing? You can accept this is normal behaviour in young children and also discourage it much as you say you have done with your own child.

Covid will have had some effect on social skills because children will have had less opportunity to socialise in a group with other children and adults. How they behave and respond at home may well be different when with other adults and numerous other children.

@MondaysChild7

You keep accusing others of not reading your posts.

Example I'm not 'smug' I've got 4 children. Clearly you've not bothered to even read all of my posts

I've just double checked and can't find anywhere on this thread where you talk about having 4 children?

You made a similar complaint to me earlier on the thread.

You made a bunch of statements about an article that seems unrelated. It then turns out your statements are about Facebook comments relating to this article that none of us can read.

All making for a rather disjointed discourse.

It's pointless getting cross with people about posts you've not written and comments we can't read.

You are of course, entitled to disagree with me but I believe that children do need to be taught boundaries and respect from a young age. It seems odd to me that people would be defensive about that and conclude that I must think my own children are perfect (they’re not!)

One of my other children is 18 and is about to go to university. I clearly remember her at 2, being put in time out at nursery because she had stepped on another child’s foot but refused to apologise. Nursery told me this at the time and I was fine with it.

Its quite rare for Ofsted to find that a nursery isn’t consistently addressing behaviour issues. If staff were dealing with it appropriately, why would it have been found to be lacking and mentioned in the report?

I agree with @insancerre.

Nursery staff are leaving the profession in their droves. And it's proving to be very difficult to replace them. I'm on many different Facebook groups and forums where people are reporting the same issue across the uk. Some settings are actually offering new staff incentives of £3-500+ if they take up a position.

It is incredibly difficult to be a nursery practitioner at the moment. Children have always shown physical behaviours towards one another, (developmental rather than bullying) but we are seeing this more than ever, alongside difficulties with attention, engagement, socialising etc. There are higher levels of unidentified SEN and of children who have experienced trauma. This is typically felt to be due to the effects of the pandemic and a lack of early development opportunities, reduced contact with services etc.

In settings, ratios have been allowed to be relaxed due to the pandemic to cover staff absence, and there has been talk of making this permanent to reduce childcare costs. You could be in a situation where you have 3 staff to care for 30 3/4 year olds, completely legally. Imagine 1 adult is making snack and another is dealing with a toilet training accident. How on earth does the remaining adult achieve anything? How are they meant to notice behaviours, let alone address them? What if there is also a child who's just settling in and needs high levels of adult support? And children with Sen who are actually funded to have daily additional support but the additional adult is also off sick? This isn't even theoretical.

I've read the ofsted report and actually feel sorry for the staff, regarding the comments about behaviour, as I know first hand how difficult it is at the moment. I've been in the job for over a decade, and it's never previously been this hard going. I think of how hard my colleagues work and how much they care. How much work and training is done at home, unpaid. How unappreciated and criticised they can be. It's no wonder they're unhappy and leaving.

@winniesanderson

I agree with *@insancerre*.

Nursery staff are leaving the profession in their droves. And it's proving to be very difficult to replace them. I'm on many different Facebook groups and forums where people are reporting the same issue across the uk. Some settings are actually offering new staff incentives of £3-500+ if they take up a position.

It is incredibly difficult to be a nursery practitioner at the moment. Children have always shown physical behaviours towards one another, (developmental rather than bullying) but we are seeing this more than ever, alongside difficulties with attention, engagement, socialising etc. There are higher levels of unidentified SEN and of children who have experienced trauma. This is typically felt to be due to the effects of the pandemic and a lack of early development opportunities, reduced contact with services etc.

In settings, ratios have been allowed to be relaxed due to the pandemic to cover staff absence, and there has been talk of making this permanent to reduce childcare costs. You could be in a situation where you have 3 staff to care for 30 3/4 year olds, completely legally. Imagine 1 adult is making snack and another is dealing with a toilet training accident. How on earth does the remaining adult achieve anything? How are they meant to notice behaviours, let alone address them? What if there is also a child who's just settling in and needs high levels of adult support? And children with Sen who are actually funded to have daily additional support but the additional adult is also off sick? This isn't even theoretical.

I've read the ofsted report and actually feel sorry for the staff, regarding the comments about behaviour, as I know first hand how difficult it is at the moment. I've been in the job for over a decade, and it's never previously been this hard going. I think of how hard my colleagues work and how much they care. How much work and training is done at home, unpaid. How unappreciated and criticised they can be. It's no wonder they're unhappy and leaving.

I wrote to my (Tory) MP about some of the issues you mention. I got a response which said that the government has committed to putting loads more money into Early Years funding. Is there any truth in this? Personally I do not and have never voted Conservative.

What does ‘kindly but firmly’ mean? Exactly how did you deal with this developmental stage?

Yabu to have such a ridiculous aibu.

FirstPrev

AIBU to think that lockdown does not make it ok to let preschoolers bully others?

Whatever puzzling debate shall we have next?

Aibu in thinking you shouldn't go about murdering people all the time?

Aibu to think that it is rude to spit on people?

@Ohmygoshyoudontsay

Yabu to have such a ridiculous aibu.

FirstPrev

AIBU to think that lockdown does not make it ok to let preschoolers bully others?

Whatever puzzling debate shall we have next?

Aibu in thinking you shouldn't go about murdering people all the time?

Aibu to think that it is rude to spit on people?

Um, we’ll some people think that being pushed and shoved is now a normal part of children learning (FB posts from the parents). So not really that ridiculous.

It is a normal part of children learning. I’d be surprised if this is the first time children being pushed has come to your attention.

I don’t think it is that ‘normal’ and people should stop perpetuating that idea. Kids lose their temper from time to time especially when they struggle to communicate with each other, but everyone pushing and shoving constantly or a child hitting on a daily basis is not ok or normal and they are clearly not ‘learning’ anything from it are they if it’s happening again and again?

It is normal though. Learning boundaries around other people is a normal part of child development.

@EV117

I don’t think it is that ‘normal’ and people should stop perpetuating that idea. Kids lose their temper from time to time especially when they struggle to communicate with each other, but everyone pushing and shoving constantly or a child hitting on a daily basis is not ok or normal and they are clearly not ‘learning’ anything from it are they if it’s happening again and again?

Exactly. I don’t understand why some people seem to feel that Ofsted would have made this up? It’s quite difficult to get a bad Ofsted report (in my area at least, which is why it’s news presumably). At this age, children learn from each other and unfortunately that would include less desirable behaviour.

You haven’t said how you ‘firmly but kindly’ dealt with your own children @MondaysChild7

@Pumperthepumper

You haven’t said how you ‘firmly but kindly’ dealt with your own children *@MondaysChild7*

Troll off.

Maybe not that kindly then?