Panorama( Young families Struggling)

[dottydodah]

Did anyone see this last evening? A lady with 2 small DC and a husband working as a Research Scientist was struggling with bills .Another young Mum in tears as her energy bill was so high.A third lady (working as a Nurse) not able to run a car. How will they manage to keep going? Surely Govt could do more?

I'm surprised nobody has been on yet to say that they shouldn't have had kids if they can't afford to support them. That's usually one of the first lines trotted out.

It so depressing that the answer to people struggling is you should be suffering more, you don't know you are born, etc.

I can't see why anyone thinks you should be able to manage with only one parent working full time. The woman with the shop wasn't making any money. If she went to Tesco as a manager full time they would double their income.

The nurse part time and where is the father?

With choices come responsibilities, which is something people don't seem to think should apply to them.

We were really poor when our kids were small, it's normal. We were able to earn more as the children got older. There wasn't any help at all for childcare so we worked in shifts around them. UC helps with childcare costs and there is much more available.

Must be lovely living in Smugville @OberthursGrizzledSkipper.

Time for the winter fuel allowance now to be scrapped, rebranded as a cost of living allowance and allocated on the basis of need across the board, not simply dished out to everyone over a certain age regardless of their financial circumstance. Many many thousands of older people receiving this cash every year they don't even need to dip into.
As for the cost of means testing argument, we'll they changed the child benefit rules not so long ago quick enough.

With choices come responsibilities, which is something people don't seem to think should apply to them.

Mind that blue scarf doesn’t get too tight. What about the children- should we just stand by and watch because it’s the parents fault?

@OberthursGrizzledSkipper - many pps have outlined why the nurse is likely part time - mostly v good reasons about working hours and cost of childcare - but also, If she is a single parent to 3 kids, when do you think she should do the washing, help with their homework, god forbid, maybe PLAY with them or read them a story? My ex had a hissy fit about me working 4 instead of 5 days when the kids were pre school age because he would not acknowledge that you have to actually be there to be a parent sometimes and also that I can't run a house and be at work and parent at the same time. As you say - where is the dad? Ooh, let me guess, at best, seeing them for a MacDs twice a month. Yay. How about forensically examining that and the, what is it now, 9 billion owed in unpaid child maintenance?

With choices come responsibilities, which is something people don't seem to think should apply to them.

So you don't think pension credit should be a thing?

@kerrypeeper

If people stick with 1 or 2 then there is far more chance they will manage if something happens. For a start benefits are only paid for 2 so having more is not sensible.

How you seen the birth rate? hardly anyone is having 3 or more dc nowadays.

People with 3 kids born before the April 2017 cap came into play will be significantly better off if claiming tax credit or UC. they get help with all three kids and the first child gets a higher amount on UC. For people with kids born after April 2017, you no longer get the higher amount for the first child and you are capped at 2 children which can mean if you have 3 kids but only get Uc for 2 kids your Uc entitlement is around £280 less than a family with 3 kids with older children. that is quite a big difference. Fortunately you can claim help with childcare for any number of children.

But as I said the idea that people are popping out dozens of dc, particularly for benefits is not correct.

As I’ve mentioned many times we live in Denmark. It works very differently here— wages are much higher but so is tax . Therefore many people earn almost double what they do in the UK but take home pay is around the same as average UK incomes. The huge difference though is full time quality childcare at about £300 a month , far more family friendly work policies , no council tax , no NI and masses of good quality social housing (of all sizes) for Danish nationals and far better pensions. . So they bring home the same but the expenses especially if you have children and work are far less. The thing is though most couples both work , because even working full time here it’s normal to knock off at 4pm and pick your kids up from after school or daycare. It's a totally different mindset but the Tory’s wouldn’t go for it because a great many of their voters just see a headline figure of 46% tax and think ‘I’m not benefiting from cheap childcare or Flexi hours or good social housing’ — A lot of decisions aren’t made for the good of the people, they are made for ‘does this appeal to our particular voting demographic ‘ . Then of course we have people voting for Brexit— how are those speeches about how much better off we would all be looking?? The only people better off are a few who got rises due to staff shortages and the seriously rich as we could then not have to be part of new EU tax avoidance rules. And no we don’t have any noticeable shortages here, yes we have had energy rises- but not as much as UK and the government is a social democratic lead coalition. It doesn’t tolerate fraud or corruption and Sunak and Johnson , indeed every MP issued fines would be out on there arse.

@kerrypeeper

If people stick with 1 or 2 then there is far more chance they will manage if something happens. For a start benefits are only paid for 2 so having more is not sensible.

How you seen the birth rate? hardly anyone is having 3 or more dc nowadays.

Well maybe people are being more sensible then.

Lots of my neighbours having 3 or more children though and almost every story I read or see on tv about a struggling mum or family has 3 or more children.

Oh and if you fancy living and working here— fat chance now as criteria for non EU is so tight unless you have a very in demand specific skill or family already here.

It's always best to look at statistical rather than anecdotal data.

Well maybe people are being more sensible then.

people can't afford them. It's not a good thing particularly when you factor in out ageing population & Brexit.

@RedWingBoots I know they do, I’ve set up gift shops and cafes before. Her shop seemed to be on an overpass next to a tower block. It doesn’t seem like the right place for an shop selling highly priced, eco and organic food. The fact.

Shops like this open and close all the time in the South West city I live in, realistically when people are struggling organic soap flakes rice and soap flakes isn’t what they are going out of their way to buy. The only successful one that seems to run here runs out of the market twice a week and does deliveries.

@kerrypeeper

But as I said the idea that people are popping out dozens of dc, particularly for benefits is not correct.

I don't believe anyone has said people are popping out lots of children for benefits.

It is just common sense that the less children you have the easier it will be to manage if things go pear shaped.

If I have 1 dog I can manage a lot easier if I lose my job, become to ill to work or whatever than if I have 3 or 4 dogs

@Crikeyalmighty the scandi approach is much more sensible when it comes to society cohesion.

Thank god my dc have Euro passports

@kerrypeeper

It's always best to look at statistical rather than anecdotal data.

Well maybe people are being more sensible then.

people can't afford them. It's not a good thing particularly when you factor in out ageing population & Brexit.

But most people can afford 1 or 2 far more easily than 3, 4, 5 or whatever.

I don't think the birth rate is falling because people can't afford them. I think far more women have woken up to the fact that having children is not necessarily a good thing

I don't believe anyone has said people are popping out lots of children for benefits.

It's a narrative often trotted out.

It is just common sense that the less children you have the easier it will be to manage if things go pear shaped.

Using that logic better to not have any dc. You can't mitigate every potential problem in the future.

And do you have a problem with people on pension benefits? many who will have had more than 2 dc as birth rates were much higher in the past. I assume they also lack common sense?

[quote Teesht]@mydogisthebest I know somebody who had millions of pounds in assets and five children. The father died when the eldest was 12.

The business partners of the husband screwed over the mum financially and she spent money on useless lawyers trying to take them to court to get what was rightfully hers. They fiddled things and drained the business of money into a new business.

The mum was left with a beautiful large house, but not much money for the next few decades to raise her kids. She took on what work she could but it was a huge struggle and she was still luckier than some.

You never know when bad luck might hit you.

It's not right to say that only rich people should have more than two kids, bad things can still happen. Anything can happen to anyone. I would never EVER look at somebody struggling and think 'well it's your own fault'. Nobody plans to struggle.

Be kind, be charitable.[/quote]
Well maybe then no one should be having more than 2.

I personally think families like the Ramseys and the Olivers are crazy to have so many children no matter how rich they are. Seems to many celebs have 3 like it's the latest trend

@mydogisthebest birth rate is falling because women have more education & choices but people are having them later & having fewer as its unaffordable.

@kerrypeeper

I don't believe anyone has said people are popping out lots of children for benefits.

It's a narrative often trotted out.

It is just common sense that the less children you have the easier it will be to manage if things go pear shaped.

Using that logic better to not have any dc. You can't mitigate every potential problem in the future.

And do you have a problem with people on pension benefits? many who will have had more than 2 dc as birth rates were much higher in the past. I assume they also lack common sense?

Birth rates, on the whole, were higher in the past because contraception was not so effective or available. Although the amount of "accidents" today would have you believe otherwise.

Also in the past people were not so aware of overpopulation, climate change etc. Although 42 years ago when me and DH married we knew the planet was already overpopulated.

Also lots of couples had children "because it was the done thing". You got married and had children. Quite a few couples still seem to believe this.

Women didn't, on the whole, question whether they wanted children or not whereas today they do and many decide it is not for them

I didn't see it but I can relate. I work part-time because we can't afford childcare full time for two kids. My DH works full time, our energy bill is £164 a month and we buy all our clothes second hand.

[quote kerrypeeper]@mydogisthebest birth rate is falling because women have more education & choices but people are having them later & having fewer as its unaffordable. [/quote]
How do you know they are having them later or having fewer because it's unaffordable? There could be many reasons.

Most couples get married far older now. No real reason for that unless it's because they want an expensive wedding and have to save for it.

Also in the past people were not so aware of overpopulation, climate change etc. Although 42 years ago when me and DH married we knew the planet was already overpopulated.

Overpopulation in most of the west isn't to do with too many dc , it's immigration & people living longer.
The UK population should start declining in the next few years & obviously it's ageing. This is obviously problematic & hence why will need immigration as its unsustainable.

"In 2004, there were approximately 4 working age individuals (aged 20- 64) for every 1 person aged 65 and over. By 2056 this ratio is predicted to fall to about 2:1."