Electric cars - so worried

[Northernlurker]

I keep worrying about being forced to buy an electric car when I change my car in a few years.
Reason being the long journeys and (mostly) self catering we love. In Scotland.
We need a range around 50% higher than the current max. It's no good saying charge it on the way if there are no fast chargers. Been looking at details today, even the fastest chargers need just over 30 minutes. Thousands of people drive UJ the Highlands and Islands annually. There won't be anything like enough chargers to cover that. We can charge overnight using an ordinary plug but it's not going to hit the max. Feel like we will spend the whole time worrying about finding a free charger in the middle of nowhere.
How is this ever going to work? It takes two Minutes to fill up a tank with petrol, electric is going to take hours!

Sorry if that seemed uncaring or dismissive when referring to your Grandad as just one person - I worded it badly; but what I meant to say was that, although it's great that he is so capable in spite of his many challenges, not everybody will manage as well as he does.

@Ifailed

Some seriously flawed maths there unfortunately.

I have a charger on the side of my house so rarely ever use the public network. Many millions of other drivers will be the same so the numbers you're quoting are innaccurate.

So long as you stay in range of your house? Flawed, possibly. However whilst you may be lucky enough to have the space to install a charger on the side of your house, many 'millions of other drivers' won't be able.

Add in all the vans, lorries etc which clearly can't be charged at the side of yours and others houses, and I still see a problem.

The government announced a target to install a smart meter in every house in 2016 by 2020, that's now slipped to 2025, and I expect will slip again.

I doubt very much if the current target to ban ICE engines by 2030/35 (pick a number) will be met, especially as the cost to install all these charging points will almost certainly be passed onto the consumer who are already reeling from higher energy prices, tax increases and the cost of food.

The next general election can take place no later than January 2025, There's no way that any political party will promising to force people into buying EV vehicles with only 5 years to go to the ban.

Sorry but this doesn't detract from your rather shonky maths, which attempted to account for every car on the road using public chargers (simultaneously too it would seem).

Again you've got some skewed logic there. What you're failing to appreciate is that millions of people can charge at home. It really is irrelevant that a lorry can't visit my house because they don't need to. The fact that millions of people won't need to visit a public charger means that the demand on the network is less. It's like me having a petrol pump at home and never having to occupy a space at the local petrol station i.e. it frees it up for people who do need it.

Shock horror but we've seen just how ineffective the petrol station network is when too many people try and panic buy fuel. It definitely didn't take 5 minutes to fill a tank then. However most of the time, people just aren't buying fuel at the same time. What makes you think EV's will be any different? Clue. They won't.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

Sorry if that seemed uncaring or dismissive when referring to your Grandad as just one person - I worded it badly; but what I meant to say was that, although it's great that he is so capable in spite of his many challenges, not everybody will manage as well as he does.

Don't worry. It didn't sound uncaring or dismissive. In an ideal world it wouldn't be a hazard for blind people to be aware of but in reality there are hundreds of hazards they contend with everyday so it's not a good argument as far as councils or the government are concerned. I mentioned in a different message that I worked in personal injury. I've had successful claims against my local council for tripping injuries (not just a scuff but actual broken bones or the worst one, broken teeth and jaw) and walked past those same places months later to find the same hazard hadn't been fixed.

Not everyone will be willing to pay for chargers to be installed but the number who do will gradually increase. We're planning to move but have had an EV charger installed today. We can afford it and had booked it before realising a standard plug was enough. I don't expect it to be a selling point at this point in time but I do hope it makes the next owners look into EVs. I had debated getting a Renault Zoe a few years ago but didn't know you could plug it into a standard plug and didn't bother looking at installing a charger. With hindsight and having used my DH's Tesla to commute, I know the Zoe would have worked well. I thought I'd be regularly panicking about being stranded with no charge but realistically, even the smallest car can cope with my 26 mile commute. We also (now) know that we can easily run two electric cars on the one charger. Not something I would have believed until we got one.

[quote raspberrymuffin]*@TalbotAMan lameasahorse

"Maybe people who live in homes without off-road parking won't be able to own cars."
Bloody hell.

Why does their incovenience give them the right to pollute the environment for the rest of us? *

It wouldn't be inconvenience when I had no way to transport my husband to his radiotherapy sessions 30 miles away from our very small town where the very infrequent buses go in the wrong direction and are unaffordable on a daily basis. By the end of 5 weeks of daily treatment he definitely would not have been fit to do what would amount to a 2 hour journey each way on a bus, a train and then another bus, and we'd have been at breaking point financially at about £20-25 a day in fares. He wouldn't be inconvenienced, he'd be dead.

"Just move house," I hear you say. I would guesstimate about a third of the homes in my very small town have no offroad parking and nowhere to create any. That's quite a lot of people you're asking to move (which they can't afford to do since no one will buy our homes if they aren't allowed cars) or give up any chance of a normal life. And what of the carbon footprint of all these empty buildings?

As it happens I think that before we take away my only practical means of transport, maybe the rest of you could stop the intercontinental holiday flights and the meat eating. And perhaps you could agree to pay a little bit more tax so that we could just install a sensible number of public chargers, rather than destroying entire communities to save you having to think about any consequences of what you're proposing.[/quote]
Sorry for your husband.

As others have said, there need to be adaptive solutions. What if you hadn't had a car because you were unable to drive or unable to afford one? The system would have stepped in. Possibilities might be

Being taken into hospital as an inpatient
Being accommodated in a hotel or flat near the hospital, paid for by the NHS
Non-emergency ambulances taking him and others to and from the hospital every day
Taxis paid for or reimbursed by the NHS
Membership of a local car club

'Just move house' is a bit impractical and clearly a solution of last resort.

I have no problem with public chargers here, there and everywhere. The rapid ones are quite bulky, but the 7kw ones could, if we had the will, be fitted in every parking space in public and near public (supermarkets, shopping centres, many workplaces that have parking, rail stations and the like) - they are just like taller bollards with a couple of sockets at the top. 8 hours on one of those while you are at work will more than replenish what you used on your commute.

Your circumstances are unfortunate, but they are also fairly unusual. They're not a justification for allowing people to keep driving petrol and diesel cars. Those cars have to go, for the sake of the planet and of the local environment.

I’m in a very small Highlands village right now and I can see two electric cars charging in the car park right now. Chill out.

I'll be getting an elector car at the very last possible day I can. I love driving my manual car. Fuck automatic cars I hate them, no fun in driving. Lets also not forget to mine the lithium for these batteries is not environmentally friendly either considering how much energy is required to do so. Nor to mention having to dispose of them. So screw the rhetoric its better for the environment.

@Dreamstate

I'll be getting an elector car at the very last possible day I can. I love driving my manual car. Fuck automatic cars I hate them, no fun in driving. Lets also not forget to mine the lithium for these batteries is not environmentally friendly either considering how much energy is required to do so. Nor to mention having to dispose of them. So screw the rhetoric its better for the environment.

Have you ever considered how much energy is needed to drill for crude oil, transport it thousands of miles, refine it and transport the petrol and diesel around to local filling stations? (Clue: it's a lot.) And then it's burned and gone for good.

Once the lithium is out, it's out and it's infinitely recyclable (though I'll concede recycling does need further energy use),

We love our EV. It’s an old one with a lower range but we like that it forces us to take breaks on longer journeys. Charging really only takes the same time it usually would to have a coffee and nip to the loo.

There is a lovely community too - we talk to each other and help each other out when we can’t get the chargers to work.

I’m just one year of having it we have seen so many new charging points. It’s getting smoother and smoother to charge when out and about. Quicker too if you have a newer model.

The infrastructure isn’t quite right yet but once you get used to it, it’s great.

The acceleration- even on our small car - is amazing too!!

Also, there are currently waiting lists to buy EV cars. This is known. There is money to be made. For example, we go to a specific restaurant on a regular journey we do, because it has a charging point (and it’s nice). They didn’t have to pay for it to be installed. The EV charging company did, who then make money charging the cars. The restaurant gets more business.

Lots of businesses will start to get them installed to attract customers as it’s such a growing market. You have a captive audience essentially, with 30 mins to kill. It’s a no brainer.

YABVU to be ‘so worried’ about how you will manage to take a hypothetical holiday in a car that you haven’t bought yet, and that nobody is going to make you buy, at some possible juncture in the next decade.

Shock horror but we've seen just how ineffective the petrol station network is when too many people try and panic buy fuel. It definitely didn't take 5 minutes to fill a tank then. However most of the time, people just aren't buying fuel at the same time. What makes you think EV's will be any different? Clue. They won't.

EXACTLY. Thank you.

I’ve had this conversation so many times with relatives who just don’t seem to get this very simple point.

When we say most journeys are short so charging isn’t an issue, we don’t mean that you will never have to charge in public. We mean that most drivers will be doing the majority of charging at home, so the demand on the public charging network is far less than people seem to think it is. I’ve had my EV for six months and so far have used it for short trips around town and longer day trips that have still been in my car’s range. I’ve not needed to use a public charger at all yet - the only time I’ve used them has been a quick practice to try them out so that I’m prepared when I do actually need to use one.

So my EV has so far placed zero demand on the public charging network, and I know many many other EV drivers who are the same. So for people worrying that every single EV in the country might need to charge at the same time, in public: that’s just not a thing.

I’m not saying for a moment that the infrastructure is perfect, but in the six months I’ve had my car I can tell you of half a dozen new public charging points that have sprung up in my local area, which already had quite a few to begin with. I expect that will continue at the same pace. Meanwhile over the next decade I’m sure battery range will get longer and charging times will get faster, which will hopefully also help ease those concerns.

Probably most people that use them will do very few miles and have a drive so it will get to the numbers required to have them, without using the chargers much, I only fill my petrol car about every 6 months so would not need to use a public charger for an ev

Just to make the obvious point as well that as numbers switch over so the majority of vehicles on the road are EV, it is drivers of ICE who will start to experience 'range anxiety' because liquid fuel outlets will get less common. That might be quite a difficult patch in fact.

lameasahorse Exactly, so my point is that you wouldn’t be competing with me or a lot of other EV drivers for the public chargers you need. A lot of people on this thread are talking like EVERY EV on the road would be competing for chargers at the same time. That just isn’t the case.

Even at 300 miles a day, as range increases over the next few years you might not have much of an issue. You would hopefully be able to get a car with a 300 mile range and charge it overnight at your home/hotel/workplace without having to give it too much thought.

@lameasahorse There are already cars that claim 300+ mile ranges so I think that will increase dramatically over the next decade.

Finding an electric charger should be easier than finding a petrol station in a more remote location, as any home or business that has electricity should be able to have a charger (or you can even sling a cable through a window to charge on a normal socket, though that’s very slow). We’re planning a UK holiday at the moment and already finding plenty of campsites and guesthouses in remote locations that have EV chargers on site.

I totally understand why people have reservations but I hope that people’s fears will start to diminish as the technology takes off and becomes much more mainstream.

People without drives arent being written off. There are already plans starting for a network of charging hubs where you can charge your car to a good 80% in 15 minutes. Which most people wouldnt need to do daily. Thats before supermarkets, town centre car parks, lamposts and employers, hospital car parks etc add them in too. The difference is wheras noone can charge there car with petrol at home, some people now have the bonus of being able to. Electricity is already really widely distributed throughout the entire uk. It just needs a bit of time and companies are doing it.

I'll be getting an elector car at the very last possible day I can. I love driving my manual car. Fuck automatic cars I hate them

Most electric cars are not automatic. They have single speed gearboxes, so no gears to change, automatically or otherwise.

@PermanentTemporary

Just to make the obvious point as well that as numbers switch over so the majority of vehicles on the road are EV, it is drivers of ICE who will start to experience 'range anxiety' because liquid fuel outlets will get less common. That might be quite a difficult patch in fact.

Indeed, but that will be 15-20 years away.

I imagine that there will be chargers in places that people are stopping anyway, like shopping centres or supermarkets. In much the same way as many supermarkets currently have petrol stations. It's a passive money maker for the supermarket if they charge slightly more than they are charged for electricity. Where there is double line parking (back to back/face to face) one charger would be reachable by 6 car spaces. My local shopping centre shows the number of available spaces on each parking level, plus the number of available disable parking spaces, they also show availability at the end of each row. It wouldn't be much effort to also show charger availability. The same with motorway service stations, they will make plenty of availability throughout the carpark when the demand is there.