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Electric cars - so worried

488 replies

Northernlurker · 11/04/2022 18:28

I keep worrying about being forced to buy an electric car when I change my car in a few years.
Reason being the long journeys and (mostly) self catering we love. In Scotland.
We need a range around 50% higher than the current max. It's no good saying charge it on the way if there are no fast chargers. Been looking at details today, even the fastest chargers need just over 30 minutes. Thousands of people drive UJ the Highlands and Islands annually. There won't be anything like enough chargers to cover that. We can charge overnight using an ordinary plug but it's not going to hit the max. Feel like we will spend the whole time worrying about finding a free charger in the middle of nowhere.
How is this ever going to work? It takes two Minutes to fill up a tank with petrol, electric is going to take hours!

OP posts:
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 12/04/2022 14:14

I'm so tired of people saying that it's not a big deal to run charging cables across the pavement to their car. Of course it's a big deal for people who are jogging, pushing babies, in wheelchairs, etc.

It is dangerous for my DP who walks with a stick. They are serious trip hazards for disabled or elderly people.

For blind people, it will render many of them effectively housebound, if there could well be a trip wire at any point along any of the pavements they walk along. Outrageous. Nobody should ever run a cable across the pavement unless it's unavoidable and there is somebody there at all times to warn passers-by.

I imagine the 'solution' will be found in those rubber cable trails, which will help most able-bodied people; but still present a real hazard for blind people and wheelchair users. It sounds like the same 'progress' that has seen lots of decent roads deliberately wrecked by the addition of huge chassis-scraping, exhaust-endangering, suspension-threatening, passenger-jolting speed bumps. Clever speed bumps have been invented that give speeders a rough ride but have very little effect on those travelling up to the limit - but for some reason, this kind never ever seem to be the ones that are installed.

user1497207191 · 12/04/2022 14:27

Even on a drive, cabling is a trip hazard for deliverers, posties, etc, especially when delivering in the dark.

FloBot7 · 12/04/2022 14:35

My grandad is blind and has used a stick for about 30 years. He manages very well on uneven surfaces (the pavements in our town centre are a serious hazard) as he knows when the height is about to change, even a little. He has and will manage just fine with a cable on the road (not unusual around roadworks). Also, don't underestimate the number of helpful people in the world. People warn him about all sorts of hazards. The most frequent is when the traffic lights he's waiting at aren't working (drivers as well as pedestrians and workmen have stopped to tell him and help him cross). I assume guide dogs would see a cable as a hazard but I'm not really sure as I don't know anyone with one.

I realised we've all forgot another demand for petrol... classic cars. They'll be around long after the ban on new cars. My colleague is in her 20s and has restored 2 old cars. She takes them to car shows that are attended by people of all ages and has quite a few friends a similar age from there. I think demand will have decreased for petrol by 2035 but there will still be petrol users for a long time after that.

worriedatthistime · 12/04/2022 14:40

@FloBot7 he is just one example at the end of the day if you ran a cable across your office and someone tripped work would be liable
It might be quite visible but thats not how the law works

worriedatthistime · 12/04/2022 14:41

None of you have said yes you have looked up how we get all the components for the batteries and if these are in abundance and will last forever.

worriedatthistime · 12/04/2022 14:47

And also cobolt etc how its retrieved its not green and friendly going electric and a lot more needs to be done as well as keep looking at other alternatives

yellowsuninthesky · 12/04/2022 14:49

@user1497207191

Even on a drive, cabling is a trip hazard for deliverers, posties, etc, especially when delivering in the dark.
Maybe having a small replaceable battery is the answer, you replace the battery and charge the other one in the house. I am sure clever minds are working on it.
yellowsuninthesky · 12/04/2022 14:50

@worriedatthistime

None of you have said yes you have looked up how we get all the components for the batteries and if these are in abundance and will last forever.
We need to start mining landfill sites for old ones and get the minerals out. Though it's not an easy or inexpensive option either.
BeforeGodAndAllTheFish · 12/04/2022 14:52

@worriedatthistime

And also cobolt etc how its retrieved its not green and friendly going electric and a lot more needs to be done as well as keep looking at other alternatives
It's still greener than running cars on fossil fuels.

Britain is making huge steps with lithium. It will he a great industry for us in 5 to 8 years.

yellowsuninthesky · 12/04/2022 14:52

@user1497207191

And hybrids aren't being banned (under current rules), so people will still need petrol for their hybrids, especially the non plug in ones!
My hybrid is 2017 though so unlikely to still be in use by 2030 and certainly not by 2035.
FloBot7 · 12/04/2022 14:58

[quote worriedatthistime]@FloBot7 he is just one example at the end of the day if you ran a cable across your office and someone tripped work would be liable
It might be quite visible but thats not how the law works[/quote]
I know, I worked in personal injury and had to study tort Grin My point was, to say that all blind people would be effectively housebound is a big exaggeration. He has and would manage 99.9999% of the time despite being both blind and less agile than the average person (in his 80s). I can't imagine getting to a point where councils actually suggest residents trail wires across the pavement. Far more likely to gradually increase charging points. Or perhaps we'll arrive at the stage where you can pay the council to install a roadside point that is powered by your house with buried wires, in a similar way to how you can pay for a dropped kerb and H bars.

CapMarvel · 12/04/2022 15:06

There's no way we are going to have cables running over pavements for all sorts of reasons.

DuchessofAnkh22 · 12/04/2022 15:10

@Northernlurker

Saying it's fine on long journeys NOW isn't actually the point either. Yes you can plan your charger use because the number of cars is still low and the number of chargers rising slowly. But if 80% of the cars at the services want the charging points it will become much less fine. Unless there are a huge number of points - and the slowness if rollout of broadband and mobile reach in remote areas says that bit of infrastructure will not keep pace!
I really think you need some kind of therapy - this isn't a normal fear.

You also need to remember that the petrol companies are putting false articles out there about the problems with electric - much of which isn't true. There are way fewer problems with charging than you would think there are.

flaglady · 12/04/2022 15:20

I'm attending a work event where research projects are being presented. Some of just a few of the project titles "next generation batteries- beyond lithium ion", "hydrogen production from sea water for carbon free aviation", "design and manufacture of multi-layer coatings on heat exchangers to improve performance in waste to energy plants" and "carbon accounting in aerospace manufacturing supply chains". That's just a few from one university in a department that's focussed on engineering, not renewables or the environment. Most students are doing research that leans towards it because there's a demand for solutions. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not the only place where research like this is being carried out.

flaglady · 12/04/2022 15:22

@worriedatthistime

None of you have said yes you have looked up how we get all the components for the batteries and if these are in abundance and will last forever.
Sorry, I have. See my first post.
etulosba · 12/04/2022 15:24

New ones or banned altogether and wiped off the face of the Earth?

I think you know the answer to that question already, don’t you?

FloBot7 · 12/04/2022 15:29

@etulosba

New ones or banned altogether and wiped off the face of the Earth?

I think you know the answer to that question already, don’t you?

No, that was a genuine question. I haven't looked into hybrids at all. I wondered if you were about to say that the government said they were great but now say they're worse than anything so they're going to be banned. 🤷🏻‍♀️
etulosba · 12/04/2022 15:33

The sale of new ones will be banned. As the EV charging infrastructure improves, they will be largely unnecessary anyway.

user1497207191 · 12/04/2022 15:39

@yellowsuninthesky

My hybrid is 2017 though so unlikely to still be in use by 2030 and certainly not by 2035.

Maybe not yours, but people will still be buying them up to 2034, so they'll be on the road throughout the 30's and 40's, the average life of a new car being 13 years.

user1497207191 · 12/04/2022 15:39

@etulosba

The sale of new ones will be banned. As the EV charging infrastructure improves, they will be largely unnecessary anyway.
Lots of things are "unnecessary" but people still buy them!
Ifailed · 12/04/2022 15:45

Some seriously flawed maths there unfortunately.

I have a charger on the side of my house so rarely ever use the public network. Many millions of other drivers will be the same so the numbers you're quoting are innaccurate.

So long as you stay in range of your house? Flawed, possibly. However whilst you may be lucky enough to have the space to install a charger on the side of your house, many 'millions of other drivers' won't be able.

Add in all the vans, lorries etc which clearly can't be charged at the side of yours and others houses, and I still see a problem.

The government announced a target to install a smart meter in every house in 2016 by 2020, that's now slipped to 2025, and I expect will slip again.

I doubt very much if the current target to ban ICE engines by 2030/35 (pick a number) will be met, especially as the cost to install all these charging points will almost certainly be passed onto the consumer who are already reeling from higher energy prices, tax increases and the cost of food.

The next general election can take place no later than January 2025, There's no way that any political party will promising to force people into buying EV vehicles with only 5 years to go to the ban.

etulosba · 12/04/2022 15:52

Lots of things are "unnecessary" but people still buy them!

They will struggle if there are none to buy.

mudgetastic · 12/04/2022 16:05

The ban is only for new car sales

There will be plenty of petrol cars around for decades after that

Badbadbunny · 12/04/2022 16:36

@etulosba

Lots of things are "unnecessary" but people still buy them!

They will struggle if there are none to buy.

Where there is demand, there will be the supply!
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 12/04/2022 17:23

My grandad is blind and has used a stick for about 30 years. He manages very well on uneven surfaces (the pavements in our town centre are a serious hazard) as he knows when the height is about to change, even a little. He has and will manage just fine with a cable on the road (not unusual around roadworks). Also, don't underestimate the number of helpful people in the world. People warn him about all sorts of hazards. The most frequent is when the traffic lights he's waiting at aren't working (drivers as well as pedestrians and workmen have stopped to tell him and help him cross). I assume guide dogs would see a cable as a hazard but I'm not really sure as I don't know anyone with one.

He's just one person, though. I'm not blind and I would be concerned about not seeing a trailing wire and tripping over it.

You make it sound like blind people should just 'not make a fuss' - like they don't already have enough challenges to deal with in life and should just put up with another big one on top of the rest.

There will not always be helpful people around, but even if there are, blind people should not be reduced to having to rely on the serendipity of others when walking down the road. Would you like to have your independence taken away by being told that you 'just need to hope that there's somebody around who will help you' when you previously managed just fine on your own?

I can't imagine getting to a point where councils actually suggest residents trail wires across the pavement. Far more likely to gradually increase charging points. Or perhaps we'll arrive at the stage where you can pay the council to install a roadside point that is powered by your house with buried wires, in a similar way to how you can pay for a dropped kerb and H bars.

I think you're probably right there, but I think the key phrase is 'you can pay the council'. Do you really think that everybody will be willing/able to do that and not just take the cheap way out? Plenty of people who have concreted over front gardens already don't bother (or can't afford) applying/paying for a dropped kerb. Some of them leave blocks of wood there permanently, which can be quite a hazard - but at least road users should all have sight to be able to avoid them. Never underestimate how many people there are out there who couldn't give a stuff about other people if they can save themselves some money.

People who rent, with landlords who don't pay for a proper charge point, also aren't going to want to pay for it themselves. Similarly, many people who are planning to sell up and move before long will not see the point in making an investment that they won't benefit from long-term.