Nearly half of teachers plan to quit in the next 5 years

[freebritknee]

I saw this from a survey carried out by an education union.

Unmanageable workload is a significant factor.

This is madness how have the unions allowed the state of teachers employment to get this far where nearly half of them want out?!

[quote wakeywakeyeggsandbacy]@sherrystrull seriously? So many professions get commented on. So many. I think this is what annoys many non-teachers about the profession - it's an "us and them" mentally, failing to look outside of the profession.

@CheesecakeAddict what is it then? Why do two of my SIL and one BIL - all in different schools and areas - enjoy teaching? BIL moans about the children sometimes (secondary) but enjoys his job overall. He retrained aged 40 because the salary and holidays were so attractive. One SIL has had some bad experiences in past schools due to the Heads/Deputy Heads, but is currently somewhere she is very happy.[/quote]
How have I failed to look outside the profession by commenting on my own career? I'm very aware that other careers have different or the same issues. However I can only comment on my own. How is this making a them and us?

What makes a them and us is people commenting on teaching and their opinions when they have no experience rather than listening.

Are there any teachers on here that think 'ok, it's hard at times and there are things I'd like to change, but I'm lucky I have a job, decent salary, nice holidays and don't have to worry where my next pay check is coming from

Loads. I don’t think any teachers have said, teachers have it worse than anyone else. The thread is about issues with retention in teaching (I’m not for a second saying only teaching has retention issues).
People are asking why teaching has a retention issue and teachers are explaining why. If you don’t like hearing teachers moaning stay off threads discussing issues around retention of teachers.

I’m sure someone will come along and tell me I’m wrong, but there aren’t too many other jobs I can think of where experience is now seen as a bad thing to employers. The more experienced you get, the less heads want you because you are expensive. In my group of friends and families, there are doctors, dentists, nurses, midwives, radiographers, physiotherapists, IT developers, council workers and all have said that experience in their field is not seen as a bad/limiting thing. In teaching, it is increasingly likely to lead to you being put on competency proceedings and managed out. I don’t think anyone can say there is ‘job security as long as you want it’ in teaching any more-maybe there was in the past.

If your face doesn’t fit (usually because you are UPS), it isn’t too long before you are facing a surprising left field ‘unsatisfactory’ lesson observation which brings with it more frequent lesson observations and book scrutinies and drop ins, then a ‘support plan’ is put in place which means more of the same. I have seen this happen to a surprising numbers of teachers over the age of 50. These were very good and very experienced teachers-ones I would want teaching my own children. They were replaced with NQTs who were…cheap.

whenshewasbad - Well it's good to hear there are teachers that appreciate the benefits of the job.

I wonder if there was more vocalised appreciation of the benefits, more talk about the good sides of teaching, and less threads like this, morale would be higher, less people would get on the moaning bandwagon and more people would want to join (and stay) in the profession. Because they'd be helped to see what they've got. Not what they haven't

So your argument is that it is threads about teaching that is making people quit teaching, and not the actual experience of teaching?

I wonder if there was more vocalised appreciation of the benefits, more talk about the good sides of teaching, and less threads like this, morale would be higher, less people would get on the moaning bandwagon and more people would want to join (and stay) in the profession. Because they'd be helped to see what they've got. Not what they haven't
We know what we have got. But the good sides of teaching - the "lightbulb moments", the relationships you build, the opportunity to set people off on a great path, the changing of lives, the pay, the holidays - are offset by the grinding monotony of never being quite good enough, or working hard enough, or by having to piss about (as I am doing today) copying resources from last year's format into this year's format "because Ofsted"...
...and yes, I could say "fuck it" and not do it... but when someone turns up and finds out that they're in the wrong format, I WILL find myself on capability, monitored to within an inch of my life, "supported" relentlessly.

@GooodMorning

whenshewasbad - Well it's good to hear there are teachers that appreciate the benefits of the job.

I wonder if there was more vocalised appreciation of the benefits, more talk about the good sides of teaching, and less threads like this, morale would be higher, less people would get on the moaning bandwagon and more people would want to join (and stay) in the profession. Because they'd be helped to see what they've got. Not what they haven't

There are ads on the telly. And in the cinema.

@Ohwellnevermindthen

I think all people working for public services feel this way, not just teacher. Look at how many want to leave nursing and paramedic services. The government do not really respect these people and are happy to make things unsustainable as they can get their friends in to save the day on a high paying contract (and then then just make things much more inefficient and more people leave). Have you not noticed that they all do very well out if chaos lately?

It is paid shit for what you have to put up with. That's why people leave. We need a government that are in touch with reality and appreciate what public sector workers do.

I agree with this. Substantial payrises across the entire public sector are required.

@wakeywakeyeggsandbacy have you even read the thread? Plus, with a sample size of 3, you've not exactly got a credible study going on there 🙄.
I love my job, the kids can be pains at times but in the whole they are a great bunch, and the parents are stressful, but the school I work in is lovely and our leadership team genuinely care. My results are excellent and I get good feedback in my observations and student voice panel. I never moan about my job (except on this forum) and come across as enthusiastic and willing to go the extra mile. I aim to quit teaching by next summer. I'm just going to get my current yr10s through their exams because they've had enough shit to deal with over the past couple of years. Absolutely no one knows this, even my family who I am very close to.
The kids, the workplace, etc etc has a role to play. But so does the ever changing curriculum, the ofsted pressure and the feeling that unless I give 100% of myself then I'm failing the kids. Funnily enough, I notice the teachers who aren't that bothered or aren't that good are the ones wanting to stay, maybe because a lot of their workload gets picked up by teachers like me.

Partly!! Yes!

I work with lots of nurses. Morale in our area is pretty high most of the time! We've all been working way over hours, seen some awful things in lockdown, seen more death than you'd want to. But we all look out for each other, challenge the system appropriately from within to make positive changes, and keep our spirits and love of the job high by appreciating what we have.

However, whenever there are media reports of low pay for nurses I do notice the team change and everyone starts grumbling and morale drops until the media circus eases and we can get back to supporting each other and appreciating the job again and all the benefits (job security, cameradie, pension, security and good colleagues).

I do think social media and other media stirs the fan of discontent at times and that people bring each other down rather than up way too much

They shouldn’t need observing once a term unless there is a form of concern like a complaint has been made. Where else do post-graduate professionals get observed so much? I never see another gp observing my gp to make sure he gives the correct advice, and definitely not 6 times a year

I can think of other professions which require more training and qualifications where every single piece of work you produce is reviewed by somebody more senior. Often more than one.

Ah the holidays. Like today. When I've been in school all day running a year 13 revision session. Doing the same with year 11 tomorrow. Then again 2 days next week.
Yup, those long, lazy holidays are an amazing perk.

Mumsneedwine - and I'm in all those days too, like many other people working hard when they'd rather be with their kids. But you have 3 days off next week? Ahhhhh

But we all look out for each other, challenge the system appropriately from within to make positive changes, and keep our spirits and love of the job high by appreciating what we have.
I wonder if this is part of the issue. My school doesn't have a staffroom. Many schools closed theirs during the pandemic. New build schools are often built without them. There are very few opportunities for school staff to get together and support each other in the working day.

I share an office with a colleague - on a typical day, we're in there together for 45 minutes before school, then she's teaching or I am. At break, if not on duty, it's too far to come back anyway, so we stay where we are, in our classrooms with students. One lunchtime a week, we have a meeting together; the other 4, she's on duty or I am. We have one non-contact period together - normally, she is called away at least once in that time. Teaching is a strangely isolating job.

Glass half empty people bring everyone down. Glass half full people bring us up, well quietly working together to fill the other half...

I wonder if there was more vocalised appreciation of the benefits, more talk about the good sides of teaching, and less threads like this, morale would be higher, less people would get on the moaning bandwagon and more people would want to join (and stay) in the profession

I get what you are saying. There are benefits, but non teachers telling teachers that they are moaning and should shut up isn’t going to fix a massive retention issue.

I can’t really work out why you don’t want teachers to complain about the difficulties in teaching.

Sorry typo .. 'while quietly working together to fill up the other half'

@CheesecakeAddict perhaps you're right, and you are picking up the slack from colleagues. You would be best placed to know that! It wouldn't surprise me at all, I know many, many teachers (I cited my in laws as examples because I know they are honest about it, unlike a less close friend/relative might be - it's not a limited sample) and it varies from those who are run-ragged, stressed with no free time on weekends and holidays, to those who seem to do their teaching hours, perhaps a bit of work in the weekday evenings, and mainly have their holidays and weekends free. This is where from an outsider perspective, it seems like it's an environment issue. Having to pick up the slack from lazy colleagues is an environment issue though.

Whenshewasbad - because complaining doesn't help anyone. If this was a thread about solutions, action and building on the good things already being done, I'd be all up for that. Complaining only serves to put people off and bring people down (in my opinion)

Glass half empty people bring everyone down. Glass half full people bring us up

goodmorning I’m really sorry but you remind me of an ex-manager (corporate). Wouldn’t allow staff to say anything negative ever. Under some mad delusion that positive thinking fixes the world.

Staff just moaned behind her back. And resigned not long after. The issue is, there is a retention problem. Not talking about the retention problem won’t make it go away.

Believe me I’d much rather find a solution to the issues. However my solution would cost the country billions (literally).

@GooodMorning

Glass half empty people bring everyone down. Glass half full people bring us up, well quietly working together to fill the other half...

Glass half empty people point out crucial problems.

Besides which, pointing out what is wrong can make you an idealist, not a pessimist. It males you want to fix things.

Eternal 'look on the bright side' can be really really irritating and never seek change for the better.

GooodMorning

The only people that say "teaching is soooo hard" is people saying that teachers say that teaching is soooo hard.

and it varies from those who are run-ragged, stressed with no free time on weekends and holidays, to those who seem to do their teaching hours, perhaps a bit of work in the weekday evenings, and mainly have their holidays and weekends free.

The latter describes me but I still think there are huge issues that need fixing in the retention of teachers. Behaviour for example, a culture of mistrust and micro management, DfE meddling, Ofsted.

@SonicBroom

In ordinary times there would probably be a general strike over pay

The average classroom teacher earns what would be the equivalent of more than £55k gross in the private sector. We were discussing it on another thread. Teaching is not poorly paid.

I don’t understand this? I’m a head of faculty- about as high as you get without being senior management. 16th year of teaching so at the top of pay scale (and been on the same pay for 7 years as I’ve hit the top rung)and I’m nowhere near that!! I’d LOVE to earn that mind you - so how was that calculated, have I misunderstood?

This is why people are not getting it. Teachers are not moaning on expecting a pity party, or sympathy. Teachers are constantly trying to state the reality of education as it affects the pupils they teach!

All of these things we are 'moaning' about, heavy workload, over assessment, lack of funding, large classes, impossible targets, constantly changing preferred schemes and systems to name but a few of the CONSTANT challenges affect more than just the teachers. They affect the pupils too.

Yet people like you always have the takeaway that we are moaning about our salary. We are not. If you actually took time to listen to teachers, even just read the comments here, salary is largely not a factor at all.

It's not a middles class problem, it's a problem facing children, young people and families, therefore it's a problem for society as a whole.
And if it transpires that 50% of the workforce actually do leave, it will have huge implications.