Nearly half of teachers plan to quit in the next 5 years

[freebritknee]

I saw this from a survey carried out by an education union.

Unmanageable workload is a significant factor.

This is madness how have the unions allowed the state of teachers employment to get this far where nearly half of them want out?!

Well, not f the same criteria are always applied surely? A year on year comparison is revealing. I am not quite getting what you mean. It's not as if a constant barrage of malicious harassment makes it somehow OK or better?

I'll see if I can find physical assaults...

As I side note , I think it is terribly important that women and children, in particular recognise and know what constitute violence and assault.

I remember when I was a month or so into my NQT year being on break duty outside my classroom and instructing some Year 11 boys (who I didn’t teach) outside and they refused to go, but then launched into a verbal attack that was just horrific.

Over and over … look at the fucking state of you, you fucking stupid bitch, tell me what to do you fucking slag … you all get the idea I am sure.

Because of the layout they had me pretty much trapped - hard to explain but the layout of the school meant I couldn’t get assistance without shoving past them. It lasted the whole of break, probably only a few minutes in reality but Jesus I have never felt so helpless or humiliated before.

That school was the pits, stuff like that happened all the time and they’d get suspended / excluded for a period then come back.

I suppose because of this I am a bit cynical of the claims that it’s oh so much worse now - I never know if this is definitively true or if my perception is skewed because I did my NQT year at the school from hell!

Bit more here, which links to the CS of E&W

I can't share the download as it outs my name! But it does sow that teachers face a higher risk of physical assault than many other occupations.

Aside from the “normal” but not acceptable forms of humiliation and violence that teachers experience my (Y7) has told me this year one teacher has had an eye injury from a laser being pointed at her within a lesson, another teacher had salt poured into her can of Coke, disgraceful tik tok accounts accusing teachers of allsorts…. I mean this is just from the top of my head.

It is beyond the pale now.

@Piggywaspushed - I suppose my problem is I always find myself torn on threads like this.

I think there’s a lot wrong with teaching but I also know that since I’ve started, pretty much, there has been a recruitment crisis.

I also know that as I’ve said above my perception is things are probably better now, largely due to so many academies having super-strict approaches (though these are peppered with their own problems too.)

I also don’t personally think being a qualified teacher is all that. I think teachers should have qualifications, but I don’t necessarily see that the PGCE or equivalent is gold standard. I’m quite happy for someone to do a degree and then learn on the job - that’s pretty much what most teaching qualifications are, after all.

I’d personally like to see actual consideration given to workload, not in those annoying ways some schools do where they get rid of say marking ‘except assessments’ (then you find out there are three assessments every half term!) but actual practical, real solutions.

@SonicBroom If pay and holidays were more important than job satisfaction then you would still be teaching.

You said that a teacher wanting to leave would "have to" find a job paying 55k to "make up" for the holidays. The implication was that this would be difficult to find and that many of the surveyed teachers would therefore not follow through on their stated intention to leave. Some PP said this explicitly.

From your own experience, you should know that this is not the case!

Worth mentioning his school is heavily oversubscribed. It is supposed to be the best state this side of the city. If this is good then I have no idea what is classed as bad.

@manysummersago

I am sure people would agree regarding unqualified teachers (when they have a degree). I think that is the standard to be honest.

It’s one’s who may not even have GCSEs that pose a problem when it comes to maintaining standards.

@Stellamar oh please, this is also getting bloody boring now. I cannot be bothered to repeat myself as whatever I say you’ll just read into it what you want anyway.

Move on then sonic. Lived experience is important in addition to quantitative data. I am sure you know that.

[quote manysummersago]@Piggywaspushed - I suppose my problem is I always find myself torn on threads like this.

I think there’s a lot wrong with teaching but I also know that since I’ve started, pretty much, there has been a recruitment crisis.

I also know that as I’ve said above my perception is things are probably better now, largely due to so many academies having super-strict approaches (though these are peppered with their own problems too.)

I also don’t personally think being a qualified teacher is all that. I think teachers should have qualifications, but I don’t necessarily see that the PGCE or equivalent is gold standard. I’m quite happy for someone to do a degree and then learn on the job - that’s pretty much what most teaching qualifications are, after all.

I’d personally like to see actual consideration given to workload, not in those annoying ways some schools do where they get rid of say marking ‘except assessments’ (then you find out there are three assessments every half term!) but actual practical, real solutions.[/quote]
I agree with nearly all you say. But I teach in a very 'steady' school with previously low turnover of staff. These last few years attrition has upped and recruitment is awful at all levels.

@Piggywaspushed

Well, BTecs are being scrapped so lots of planning ahead in FE and Sixth Forms...

Ye gods. I knew it was coming and am really glad I don't have to plough through the balderdash that will come with the new specs.

That’s interesting @Piggywaspushed - we seem to have little problems recruiting but don’t retain.

@MichaelAndEagle

I think the teaching crisis is due to the fact that except for Estelle Morris, we have never had a Minister for Education who had been a teacher and understands the issues. Just because you have been to school doesn’t mean you understand education - thinking of Gove here.

I hear this, and whilst I don't disagree, the ministers are chosen from elected MPs. So unless you always made sure you had a former teacher, former nurse, former farmer, former judge etc as your MPs how could it ever be different?
The Ministers have their advisors from the departments don't they? Aren't those in the Department for Education supposed to be the experts? I admit I only have the loosest grasp on how this works.

Senior Civil Service (in fact all civil service pretty much) also regularly move departments so have no real idea how things work on the ground. That's true of every department of Government though, not just teaching. We don't have economists or accountants as chancellors, or doctors as health ministers. Or anybody with proper management skills as a PM...

I have to slightly agree with what @JangolinaPitt is saying, and although I'm not a teacher so speaking as an outsider, I have worked in both the private/corporate world and the civil service. The things my civil service colleagues complain about shows that some in such roles don't live in the "real" working world.

For teachers surely it depends on the school, colleagues, children, management? I know plenty who don't complain constantly, and so assume they like the school, children, senior staff etc. So...a bit like most jobs really, it depends a lot on the variables.

@jangolinapitt are you on now teach? It looks really good.

nowteach.org.uk/the-team/

I know plenty who don't complain constantly, and so assume they like the school, children, senior staff etc. So...a bit like most jobs really, it depends a lot on the variables

If you knew me in real life, you would say I never complain.
What people say on anonymous forums is often different from what they say in real life.

For example in real life when I told people I was retaining as a secondary teacher. They were shocked that I would pick such as tough profession. In real life people acknowledge that workload and behaviour are really tough for teachers.

@wakeywakeyeggsandbacy if we're as simple as that, then it would just be individual schools struggling to recruit and retain rather than the entire profession.

@wakeywakeyeggsandbacy

I have to slightly agree with what *@JangolinaPitt* is saying, and although I'm not a teacher so speaking as an outsider, I have worked in both the private/corporate world and the civil service. The things my civil service colleagues complain about shows that some in such roles don't live in the "real" working world.

For teachers surely it depends on the school, colleagues, children, management? I know plenty who don't complain constantly, and so assume they like the school, children, senior staff etc. So...a bit like most jobs really, it depends a lot on the variables.

It never fails to amaze me the amount of people commenting on the job of a teacher while simultaneously having absolutely no experience of it. I would never be so arrogant.

@sherrystrull seriously? So many professions get commented on. So many. I think this is what annoys many non-teachers about the profession - it's an "us and them" mentally, failing to look outside of the profession.

@CheesecakeAddict what is it then? Why do two of my SIL and one BIL - all in different schools and areas - enjoy teaching? BIL moans about the children sometimes (secondary) but enjoys his job overall. He retrained aged 40 because the salary and holidays were so attractive. One SIL has had some bad experiences in past schools due to the Heads/Deputy Heads, but is currently somewhere she is very happy.

I know I've annoyed a lot of people, and sorry to anyone I've offended with my previous post. Like I said, there are some great teachers (and bin men, lorry drivers, waiters, nurses, bankers, pilots etc...) out there. There are good, hard working people in all professions. But something about this 'its soooo hard for teachers' thing just really really annoys me! (Sorry, can't help what annoys me! Clearly I am annoying a lot of people!!)

Many many of us are going through hard times at work at the moment. Many many of us work hard. Most public sector employees are struggling.

But there is something about teaching which it sometimes feels is meant to make everyone say 'ahhh poor teachers, how hard your life is. What terrible pay you have. Poor you'. When in reality I think - your salary is pretty good, you have job security for as long as you want it. You have child friendly holidays.

Come on. It's not like your down the mine or begging on the street or working 18 hour days in a cocoa plantation. This is such a middle class problem it really really annoys me.

Are there any teachers on here that think 'ok, it's hard at times and there are things I'd like to change, but I'm lucky I have a job, decent salary, nice holidays and don't have to worry where my next pay check is coming from'?

Are there any teachers on here that think 'ok, it's hard at times and there are things I'd like to change, but I'm lucky I have a job, decent salary, nice holidays and don't have to worry where my next pay check is coming from'?
Of course. I love my job. But that doesn't mean that I don't have a right - actually, it's an obligation - to highlight the fact that it's increasingly difficult for an increasingly varied number of reasons. Because people outside of it won't know unless we tell them.

I don’t necessarily see that the PGCE or equivalent is gold standard. I’m quite happy for someone to do a degree and then learn on the job

Do you think a PGCE or SCITT training isn’t learning on the job?

When in reality I think - your salary is pretty good, you have job security for as long as you want it. You have child friendly holidays.

And yet there is a crisis in education and a critical shortage of teachers.

You’d think that parents of school-aged children would find this concerning given it’s their education that is being affected.