Appointment with GP - heart sunk

[MarriedThreeChildren]

Had an appointment last week with my GP. I’ve had a bad flare up from a chronic illness.

Went through everything, agreed to be referred back to hospital consultant. And then came the killer question

Do you have an insurance and want to go private or are we going NHS?

With the clear feeling that really the ‘right’ answer was going private :(:(

Since when is the NHS pushing patients to go private? Not so long ago it was such a big No-No. No GP would ever ask that question as a routine question. Rather people would ask if they knew they could get quicker/see who they wanted to see.

But here we go. The system is so fucked up that GPS are now trying to push people to go private rather than NHS.

I find it extremely worrying (I mean which insurance will ever cover me with a chronic condition that has been there for 15 years anyway??). Is it now the only way to get some decent medical support?
I have no idea when I will be able to see the consultant. GP ‘wasn’t aware about the lead times’ (last time I went to see them the wait was about 1 years. It was pre covid etc…. So I suspect…. much more than that…)

@MarriedThreeChildren

Had an appointment last week with my GP. I’ve had a bad flare up from a chronic illness.

Went through everything, agreed to be referred back to hospital consultant. And then came the killer question

Do you have an insurance and want to go private or are we going NHS?

With the clear feeling that really the ‘right’ answer was going private :(:(

Since when is the NHS pushing patients to go private? Not so long ago it was such a big No-No. No GP would ever ask that question as a routine question. Rather people would ask if they knew they could get quicker/see who they wanted to see.

But here we go. The system is so fucked up that GPS are now trying to push people to go private rather than NHS.

I find it extremely worrying (I mean which insurance will ever cover me with a chronic condition that has been there for 15 years anyway??). Is it now the only way to get some decent medical support?
I have no idea when I will be able to see the consultant. GP ‘wasn’t aware about the lead times’ (last time I went to see them the wait was about 1 years. It was pre covid etc…. So I suspect…. much more than that…)

Bit if a leap to say your Gp was pushing! He was just asking

@takemetomars SHE was asking, not he…..

@Nat6999

You should be able to opt out of the NHS, sign something to say you won't claim NHS treatment if you have private healthcare & claim a small reduction on NIC, employees who get private healthcare shouldn't be taxed on the payments as they are saving the NHS money. The NHS model is broken thanks to it being underfunded over the last 20 years.

It has even underfunded for the last 10 years. For the previous years, Labour had actually increased the funding for the NHS.

I actually agree that going back is going to be hard, very hard, esp with the ‘covid effect’ and the fact we need even MORE funding to be able to cope with the increased waiting time (nit bashing the NHS or HCP professionals there).

But I don’t think you can opt out of the NHS. Sure you can for most stuff but not if you need immediate care, A&E, pandemic etc….

@LakieLady

I'm not a naysayer, I'm just fed up of paying twice, once through tax, and once again privately to get treatment that in other countries you have to pay once for

But you're not paying tax for your own treatment, you're paying towards the whole of the NHS, including treatment for those who would never be in a position to pay for essential treatment from their own resources. As over 20% of the UK population is living in poverty, that's a lot of people. Would you prefer them to just suffer and/or die?

And if you were to collapse in the street or be injured in an accident, the ambulance that picks you up would be an NHS ambulance, and it would take you to an NHS A&E unit. Both of those services are available to whoever needs them, 24/7. Few, if any, private hospitals have A&E departments.

Don't be ridiculous. I used to live in France, and I can assure you the streets are not full of collapsed people dying there. Its not some kind of international contest between countries to claim the highest percentage of poor people you know.

The NHS is such a bad system of healthcare that I'm seriously considering moving abroad to a country which has a better one. Probably France. When you consider the sort of standard treatments people do pay for privately that are available in other countries, the NHS is extremely expensive at point of use because many of us do end up paying twice.

Are you seriously suggesting that the UK is such a poor country that it needs the NHS because of poverty? No other countries have such poverty and therefore only the NHS works where a country has poverty?

My GP surgery has been asking asking this for many years - at least 15

@Nat6999

You should be able to opt out of the NHS, sign something to say you won't claim NHS treatment if you have private healthcare & claim a small reduction on NIC, employees who get private healthcare shouldn't be taxed on the payments as they are saving the NHS money. The NHS model is broken thanks to it being underfunded over the last 20 years.

and who is going to treat you in an emergency ? The private hospitals who don't have A and Es?

@ancientgran as I said earlier people choose to spend their money in different ways so perhaps people have been saving for situations like this as I have. Others choose not to save for things like pensions, insurances etc but prefer to "live for the day". You personally have no idea what a person may have done to be able to afford that private visit . Can every single person in the UK afford to do that ? Sadly no but a damn lot could if they stopped with all the other stuff . As has also been said if I am going private and paying then I am not taking the place of an NHS person. These doctors do not see you in NHS time as well explained in previous posts. I am saving the NHS some money in fact and removing myself from the NHS list.

The whole system is fucked and unfortunately it is almost beyond repair. I've never been asked by a gp if i have insurance, however I've just had an op through a private hospital, on the nhs! Don't get me wrong i am not by any means complaining but how the hell is that cost effective?
I Went to the gp for an issue that flares up every 4-5 years, started 20 years ago. Gp decided it was time something was done and put in an urgent referral for a series of tests. I was very lucky to have all tests done within 4 months. But it Revealed problems bigger than first thought. But the waiting list was nearly 3 years long! 6 months on the list and i get a call asking if i would Mind being transferred to the private hospital and having my op in the next 8 weeks.
I had the op at the private hospital and was sickened when i saw a breakdown on the prices! I don't know how much the nhs paid the private hospital but the op i had was quoted from £45000 with this dr! (they do finance plans for people that don't have insuarce but want to go private). Consultation are priced from £300, test are anywhere from. £75-£2000 depending on what they are.
I doubt the nhs will have paid top rate but no way did a top surgeon get paid at nhs rate. I checked and he doesn't work for nhs at all. my original nhs consultant however does also work for the private hospital but he was not my dr once i was transferred over 🤔

Workingwoe I've had 5 ops under NHS choose & book. I can't fault the service I got at the private hospital, the staff know me & that I have PTSD after a horrific experience in hospital when I had ds, they are kind, make sure I am first on the list so I don't have time to be nervous & get me discharged as fast as they can. The service is efficient, everything happens when it should, pain relief is on hand as soon as you need it, no waiting hours to be discharged, drugs to take home are dispensed before you go to theatre, the hospital is spotless & has never had a case of MRSA. It really is everything the NHS should be.

@Nat6999

Workingwoe I've had 5 ops under NHS choose & book. I can't fault the service I got at the private hospital, the staff know me & that I have PTSD after a horrific experience in hospital when I had ds, they are kind, make sure I am first on the list so I don't have time to be nervous & get me discharged as fast as they can. The service is efficient, everything happens when it should, pain relief is on hand as soon as you need it, no waiting hours to be discharged, drugs to take home are dispensed before you go to theatre, the hospital is spotless & has never had a case of MRSA. It really is everything the NHS should be.

The reason they've never had a case of mrsa is that they screen and refuse to admit anyone who's a carrier.

The NHS is forced to treat everyone who wants to be treated, including acute and trauma patients. Unselected patients, unplanned admissions, over occupancy of beds, higher risk patients and delayed discharges make it a Fundamentally uneven playing field.

As a PP has said 'You'd likely see the same consultant whether it be NHS or private anyway. You'd just be seen quicker!'.

There is not an infinite number of consultants and services so isn't it the case that if anyone jumps the queue, they are making the rest of us who have no access to private health insurance wait longer? 'Going private' does not mitigate the pressures of the nhs. Rather, it exacerbates them.

You may see the same consultant you would see on the NHS but you might not. The difference is that privately you have a choice of consultant and can choose who you want to see based on their expertise. Secondly privately you always see your consultant and never any of their team or a more junior doctor who works for them so they actually get to know you. Not to even mention that all tests etc can be completed in a much better time

DP saw GP Thursday, MRI Friday, results Monday, consultant appointment Wednesday and first treatment Friday. Orthopaedic problem so nothing life threatening or an emergency,

[quote PlainJaneEyre]@ancientgran as I said earlier people choose to spend their money in different ways so perhaps people have been saving for situations like this as I have. Others choose not to save for things like pensions, insurances etc but prefer to "live for the day". You personally have no idea what a person may have done to be able to afford that private visit . Can every single person in the UK afford to do that ? Sadly no but a damn lot could if they stopped with all the other stuff . As has also been said if I am going private and paying then I am not taking the place of an NHS person. These doctors do not see you in NHS time as well explained in previous posts. I am saving the NHS some money in fact and removing myself from the NHS list.[/quote]
I have already said if people go private I have no issue with that, I have an issue with people playing the system. Maybe this will help you understand.

You and your friend Mary have a health problem, you go along to your GP on the same day and both get a referral, you chose to go NHS and your friend goes private. She sees the Consultant that week, you get an appointment in 3 months time.

So she goes along to the Consultant and he refers her for surgery on the NHS. His waiting list is 2 months long. She has her operation and you are still waiting to see the Consultant. She has leapfrogged you because she paid a few hundred pounds to jump the queue. She has taken the place of a person in the NHS queue.

Now if she saw the Consultant privately and then paid for a private operation (or whatever the next step is) then I think that is fine but I don't think jumping the NHS queue is fine.

So if you are going private right through good for you, if you are paying a relatively small amount to jump the first part of the NHS queue I think that is wrong and it shouldn't happen.

Yes @ancientgran this is what happens - sometimes people stay private depending on the sheer cost of what is needed and others go back into the NHS.
I would love to know by the way of any speciality where the waiting list is 2 months - it's often more like 9 - 18 months. Two months is what my current GP service is running at for a telephone consult. I had treatment under the "two week rule" recently which is running as eight weeks currently. Luckily it was not a serious outcome.
As regards the other point - if someone has paid for a private investigation then what would be the point of them waiting for a further 18 months after NHS person has had their initial consult? We're getting into stupidity then. Yes I know that everyone cannot pay for a private consult but such is life .

@PlainJaneEyre

Yes *@ancientgran* this is what happens - sometimes people stay private depending on the sheer cost of what is needed and others go back into the NHS. I would love to know by the way of any speciality where the waiting list is 2 months - it's often more like 9 - 18 months. Two months is what my current GP service is running at for a telephone consult. I had treatment under the "two week rule" recently which is running as eight weeks currently. Luckily it was not a serious outcome. As regards the other point - if someone has paid for a private investigation then what would be the point of them waiting for a further 18 months after NHS person has had their initial consult? We're getting into stupidity then. Yes I know that everyone cannot pay for a private consult but such is life .

Well I got a referral to heart and lung unit (post covid problems) with a 3 week wait. Not sure what happens when I get there but I'm hoping they can sort my problems out. I have had a same day appointment with GP twice in the last six weeks while I've been ill. Can't fault them so far and hope the hospital visit is going to help me.

What is the point of them waiting a further 18 months? Well people who have waited for their NHS consultation are pushed further back so I don't think they should jump the queue. You obviously disagree but for me I think it is fine to get private treatment but getting one bit of the process privately so you can access the NHS fast is unfair. So it has no point for them but alot of point for other people waiting their turn. Remember it is unlikely to be one person nipping into the queue in front of them. Maybe their wait would be less if everyone took their turn. It just seems morally right to me and I'm surprised the NHS allow it. I understand there are (or there used to be) rules about not being able to "upgrade" NHS treatment. My dentist got struck off for it, he claimed for a treatment on a patient but the patient paid the extra and had a more aesthetically pleasing treatment. This was years ago so might have changed. That makes far less sense to me as I can't see anyone else loses by it but the queue jumping does negatively impact on others.

It seems morally right to wait or go 100% private. I didn't make that clear.

@Scianel

It seems like such a big change. I had an issue about fifteen years ago that I was back and forth to my gp for and get referred on, I did ask her if I should consider going private and she looked almost offended!

Yeah I remember feeling like a real shit asking for a referral to be made out to a private doctor!

I've fairly recently started a new job which has the option to join the company private medical scheme , having had to wait on really long waiting lists previously for surgery to help with painful conditions which made my quality of life awful, I'm happy to pay for this and got DD covered too

@Patchbatch

It doesn't sound like they were pushing you, just asking. With more people who can afford to opting to go private makes sense not to assume before referring on and wasting a space on the waiting list. The list probably is horrendously long as the NHS is on its knees, if it makes some think ah yeah can afford that sounds good then it'll be less of a wait for you.

Not necessarily less of a wait; it could be a doctor who has both private and NHS patients, so whilst he/she is treating private patients, he/she has less time for NHS work. It leads to a two tier system.

Well it is worrying that the government is running down a world renowned service. It frightens and appalls me.
I meet a number of foreign students (who represent a number of different health care systems) and almost every single one has mentioned how wonderful the nhs is. Some also say how little British people appreciate it. In that we are not kicking up a storm that it’s being deliberately run down.

I think it's absolutely disgusting TBH. The Tories have created this mess. They have been running down the NHS since they got in - 'safe in their hands' - that's a laugh. We won't have an NHS in a few years - I give it 5. Too many people leaving, not enough medical staff. The Tories are going to/want to let the poor rot. Check out the stats in the US - people are dying on the streets. Now we have our lovely Brexit the shit will do what they like. People in this country are being shat on and they still vote Tory. I despair.

GP’s have always asked this. It’s not a new thing.

But at this point the system is ranked and there’s a massive backlog. So yes unless you’re facing death you’re in for a very very long wait. For context I have a benign tumour on a nerve causing extreme pain. They are still catching up on 2019. I won’t be being seen on the NHS for years.

I have decided to pay for private. And I have taken out private health care. Who will cover pre existing conditions.

I think it's even more worrying when you see many Trusts are basically telling people to not turn up to A&E because they won't be able to see them unless it's a life or death situation (and even then....).

It's all well and good to say 'well people have private insurrances so it's normal for them to use them'. But that's not going to help for those acute cases when you need JUST RIGHT NOW.
The reality is that quality acute care goes hand in hands with quality health care.

That's without talikng about the fact whole pdepartments are been sold to private invesors. You can discuss how this would be better if you need a knee replacemnet but for dialysis? And of course, what happens when things go wrong?

Eg My dad had his gallbladder out done privately. It didn't go well and he ended up in hospital for a week. In the nearby NHS hospital because the private one wasn't set up for that at all.

And that's wo talking about health inequalities and the poorer part of the population getting an even less good health care than the richer ones (and no it wasnt as marked before)

@niugboo, sowhe thy did start asking at your surgery?

Because no one has ever asked me before, incl just before covid struck and I needed an appointment with a neurologist.
At that time, people on MN were still shocked that such a question wa sasked.

So I'm wondering what you saw as it clearly hasn't been my Which I hope you can appreciate and recognise

@ancientgran, tbf I have no issue getting appointments with my GP. I usualy get it within 24~48hours too (econsult followed by a telephone appointment).

Hospital appointments are obvioulsy a different kettle of fish. But I'm getting the feeling they ahve out some specific system in plae with anything related to covid/long covid so that could explain your experience.
Do you have a long covid clinic where you are? They are quite quick to see people here.