Appointment with GP - heart sunk

[MarriedThreeChildren]

Had an appointment last week with my GP. I’ve had a bad flare up from a chronic illness.

Went through everything, agreed to be referred back to hospital consultant. And then came the killer question

Do you have an insurance and want to go private or are we going NHS?

With the clear feeling that really the ‘right’ answer was going private :(:(

Since when is the NHS pushing patients to go private? Not so long ago it was such a big No-No. No GP would ever ask that question as a routine question. Rather people would ask if they knew they could get quicker/see who they wanted to see.

But here we go. The system is so fucked up that GPS are now trying to push people to go private rather than NHS.

I find it extremely worrying (I mean which insurance will ever cover me with a chronic condition that has been there for 15 years anyway??). Is it now the only way to get some decent medical support?
I have no idea when I will be able to see the consultant. GP ‘wasn’t aware about the lead times’ (last time I went to see them the wait was about 1 years. It was pre covid etc…. So I suspect…. much more than that…)

@MarriedThreeChildren

This. I work in a surgery and it's pretty standard now, with the NHS waiting lists so long.

That’s my whole point though.

Many people on this thread are saying it’s logical and a practical remark because the waiting lists are so long.

BUT

As others have pointed out, it didn’t used to be the case (I’m not talking about covid).
It didn’t use to be the case that if you want to be seen within a decent time frame, you have to go private.
And it didn’t use to be that it was the norm to fall back onto private healthcare.

Now I imagine that the situation is different in different parts of the country. But where I am, the level of poverty is high. So asking about private insurance can easily be tone death too.

when did it not used to be the case? How long ago?

[quote godmum56]@MissyB1

Its often done evenings and weekends when NHS clinic services don't run.[/quote]
Aaah ok our Trust wouldn’t allow it. They stopped any private work being done in their facilities a few years ago - fair enough.

@JinglingHellsBells

It didn’t use to be the case that if you want to be seen within a decent time frame, you have to go private.

How old are you?

It's been like this as long as I can remember and I'm talking of 60 years, including my mum scraping together a fee for her mum to see a gynae privately/ quicker.

Nope.

10 years ago, you could get a quicker appointment but you weren’t told to go private to have a cancer diagnosed. It was about not a thing to wait and about having ‘special treatment’ and jumping the NHS queue. It was often NOT about going private as such.

2 years ago, I was simply referred back to the consultant. Was told it would be a year (ended up being less).
2 years ago I was referred to a heart specialist within weeks, had a 24 hour monitor etc…

Never has a GP asked if I had a private health insurance rather than going on the NHS waiting list. Despite a few scares, incl cancer, heart problems etc….

@JinglingHellsBells can I ask

Where is your evidence that they had been doing that for years?
Do you have a time line as to when they started to ask if one has private health insurance?

The level of cognitive dissonance on this thread is quite a thing. Soon I will be told that the NHS has always asked if they can go private etc… that people have always gone private even to see a GP etc…

Fwiw if this had been something so usual, I wouldn’t have been taken by surprise by the question….
Because, you know, they would have asked that to the many previous appointments have had for that chronic condition…

Nope- nope what? That many years ago you didn't have to pay to get an appt sooner?

You are wrong there. It depends on the condition. Dermatology appts have always been at least a year and up to 4!

Non-urgent gynae would be be 6-9 months or more.

Also, what do you expect after Covid?

Two years ago Covid has just started. Surely you understand that now there is a huge backlog? If not, where have you been for the last 2 years?

Your GP was trying to be helpful by asking that question.

No one denies the NHS is in a terrible state, but I don't understand your 'outraged' response which is purely emotional and not logical.

[quote MarriedThreeChildren]@JinglingHellsBells can I ask

Where is your evidence that they had been doing that for years?
Do you have a time line as to when they started to ask if one has private health insurance?

The level of cognitive dissonance on this thread is quite a thing. Soon I will be told that the NHS has always asked if they can go private etc… that people have always gone private even to see a GP etc…

Fwiw if this had been something so usual, I wouldn’t have been taken by surprise by the question….
Because, you know, they would have asked that to the many previous appointments have had for that chronic condition…[/quote]
I don't need to give evidence as I didn't make the points.

You did,

So you need to provide the evidence.

Clearly you can't.

It is awful OP. The wait list to see me will be about 18 months when I return from maternity leave. There are many reasons for this but chronic under funding, reorganisation and restructuring too quickly within the change cycle and duplication/poor leadership are part of it.

Private GP appointments are really catching on where I live too. It's not good there's such a high demand for them.

10 years ago, you could get a quicker appointment but you weren’t told to go private to have a cancer diagnosed. It was about not a thing to wait and about having ‘special treatment’ and jumping the NHS queue. It was often NOT about going private as such.

2 years ago, I was simply referred back to the consultant. Was told it would be a year (ended up being less).
2 years ago I was referred to a heart specialist within weeks, had a 24 hour monitor etc…

Never has a GP asked if I had a private health insurance rather than going on the NHS waiting list. Despite a few scares, incl cancer, heart problems etc….

You might not have experienced it, but 14 years ago my husband did. He chose NHS to start with and then had to switch to private due to the NHS making a mess of his referral. I spoke about it in a previous post on here.

OP, you are wong. It's as simple as that. Your experience is a test group of one. Lots of us have said that our experiences are different. I can say for certain that I am not lying.

If you go private fine go private. If you need to swap to NHS get back int he queue.

It's more complicated than that IRL, though.

DM went private for what was supposed to be routine surgery. Got blue-lighted to the local NHS hospital due to catastrophic blood loss. She then had the pleasure of hearing one particularly nasty nurse regale anyone passing by about "people who are too la-di-da for the NHS but swan back in here when it goes wrong".

DM basically cashed in her savings to go private. She did it because the NHS hospital wouldn't even give her a date when they were likely to know how long she'd have to waitlet alone a date for her actual operation. Because she was by that point waking up struggling to breathethe NHS hospital didn't even seem to think that breathing was quite important, let alone question whether their diagnosis might be wrong.

Oh yeah, the diagnosis. Done on the basis of completely the wrong scan, and followed by the referral being 'forgotten'. The blood loss was because the surgery (when it eventually came) hit a blood vessel in metastatic cancer no-one knew was there. The private hospital obviously don't get a free pass for missing the signs, but the reason DM even had to go there was because everyone involved in her state care had repeatedly missed big flags for ovarian cancer.

My Dad who has an air of respectable well to do gent about him has been getting asked this question at every appointment since about 1972.

They don't ask me.

It's probably just that you look like someone who might have insurance.

@MarriedThreeChildren
"10 years ago, you could get a quicker appointment but you weren’t told to go private to have a cancer diagnosed. It was about not a thing to wait and about having ‘special treatment’ and jumping the NHS queue. It was often NOT about going private as such.

2 years ago, I was simply referred back to the consultant. Was told it would be a year (ended up being less).
2 years ago I was referred to a heart specialist within weeks, had a 24 hour monitor etc…

Never has a GP asked if I had a private health insurance rather than going on the NHS waiting list. Despite a few scares, incl cancer, heart problems etc….

My late husband had his cancer care privately 15 years ago. At the time the GP asked him if he would be using private medicine. He got faster and better care than he would have done in the NHS. Sadly it wasn't enough. He did move between NHS and private care during his illness and every single bloody time he needed the NHS it was a shit show....not because of funding but because of piss poor management and organisation. I worked in the NHS and I know whereof I speak. Its 10 years since he died and I am still angry about it.

I'm still aghast from my recent NHS audiology appointment
Discuss options for suitable hearing aids
Registrar had a laminated sheet, with photos and advantages and disadvantages for each model
Along with their price!!

YANBU

Private schemes worry me too though.

I know three people who've recently had what could well be unnecessary surgery and I have a friend who's had the same recurring foot problem as me for the last 3 years. I've "managed" mine following on-line advice and she's had numerous costly interventions through her insurance. She's in a far worse state than I am now, some of the treatments seem to have made things worse. She never sees any specialist and comes away without needing something costly doing.

@knittingaddict

10 years ago, you could get a quicker appointment but you weren’t told to go private to have a cancer diagnosed. It was about not a thing to wait and about having ‘special treatment’ and jumping the NHS queue. It was often NOT about going private as such.

2 years ago, I was simply referred back to the consultant. Was told it would be a year (ended up being less).
2 years ago I was referred to a heart specialist within weeks, had a 24 hour monitor etc…

Never has a GP asked if I had a private health insurance rather than going on the NHS waiting list. Despite a few scares, incl cancer, heart problems etc….

You might not have experienced it, but 14 years ago my husband did. He chose NHS to start with and then had to switch to private due to the NHS making a mess of his referral. I spoke about it in a previous post on here.

same story here...it seems like a lot of us have had similar experiences. I can't prove it but belive that the NHS screw ups contributed to his death

Oh, and DF and being SE. Given that this was over 20 years ago, I don't know what benefits he'd have been able to get if he'd been unable to work. It would have been difficult even short-term for someone in his 60s--and with waits as they were, it could have been months.
Also of course, by him getting his op sooner he was able to be back out working and contributing taxes again. Someone who is languishing unable to work is by definition not funding the NHS.

@StayAGhost

I'm still aghast from my recent NHS audiology appointment Discuss options for suitable hearing aids Registrar had a laminated sheet, with photos and advantages and disadvantages for each model Along with their price!!

why not. There are much better hearing aids available privately than on the NHS so why not tell you?

A while ago I was advised to go private to get a test for something that may or may not have been something serious. Then it did turn out to be serious, I'd get faster NHS treatment. Otherwise I'd have to wait for the test on the NHS...by which time....it could be serious :S.

It was a moot point anyway because I got a cancellation slot and it turned out not to be the serious thing but damn. Puts it in perspective doesn't it.

@StayAGhost

I'm still aghast from my recent NHS audiology appointment Discuss options for suitable hearing aids Registrar had a laminated sheet, with photos and advantages and disadvantages for each model Along with their price!!

Weren't you offered any choices through the NHS?

I understand the discussion of options as this is part of the shared decision making process. Different features matter more to some people than others.

[quote Rubyupbeat]@MissyB1
It is a done thing, they hire NHS rooms and theatres, which I guess helps the hospital out. Even Great Ormand street do this.[/quote]
Great Ormond Street has a private wing - DS stayed there. It seemed to be used largely by oversees patients.

I remember my mother being asked whether I was to have surgery privately or on the NHS - I was around 7, and am in my 60's now, so certainly not a new thing.

By the same token, the consultant who saw us when DS was born (we had private cover) emphasised that the treatment he received would be exactly the same whether he was a private or NHS patient. Gave us great comfort at the time.

For those with a prescription pass or for whom they're free, this makes sense.

However the OTC costs might be worth it for some who might not want to attend in person appointments and take time off work.

Pill prescriptions are always free so the pre pay cert is irrelevant to this situation.

Also, you need an in person appointment once a year to take blood pressure etc, other than that they can be supplied on repeat. Free.

@Doggirl

Oh, and DF and being SE. Given that this was over 20 years ago, I don't know what benefits he'd have been able to get if he'd been unable to work. It would have been difficult even short-term for someone in his 60s--and with waits as they were, it could have been months. Also of course, by him getting his op sooner he was able to be back out working and contributing taxes again. Someone who is languishing unable to work is by definition not funding the NHS.

Yes, of course, that's all part of the equation.

But I was only responding to the part I actually commented on, and on the current rules. None of that negates what I posted.

[quote MarriedThreeChildren]@JinglingHellsBells can I ask

Where is your evidence that they had been doing that for years?
Do you have a time line as to when they started to ask if one has private health insurance?

The level of cognitive dissonance on this thread is quite a thing. Soon I will be told that the NHS has always asked if they can go private etc… that people have always gone private even to see a GP etc…

Fwiw if this had been something so usual, I wouldn’t have been taken by surprise by the question….
Because, you know, they would have asked that to the many previous appointments have had for that chronic condition…[/quote]
I remember being asked the question by my GP approx 20-25yrs ago. It was a teaching practice so they had links with the local university. When I was asked, I had the foresight to ask my GP "why are you asking me if I have private healthcare?". Her response "because you'll be seen quicker, this service isn't seen as a priority so the waiting lists are very long."

I did go private for the initial consultation, but received treatment via NHS after waiting for 8 months.

My current GP has never asked me this question. And I've had appts with my GP pre & post the covid19 pandemic.

The point I'm attempting to get across is; I don't believe there is a huge conspiracy to push everyone to private healthcare. It depends upon the GP you've seen, it depends upon their knowledge base and what they've been reading, which will in turn determine if they ask you if you've got private healthcare. From what I can see, the main agenda being pushed by NHS England (and they're ignoring socioeconomic factors with this agenda), is for people to be more accountable & proactive in managing their health & mental well-being, by adopting healthy lifestyle choices and accessing the plethora of self help resources.

That’s terrible the gp asked you that. I also have a chronic illness and have never been asked that question and would be just as concerned as you. While being diagnosed I had private insurance so I’ve seen both sides of treatment. What’s interesting was that it’s the exact same consultant I saw privately as I did on the NHS. And with regards to waiting times, I honestly found there to not be much difference. When I went full nhs and needed urgent surgery, I was even sent to a private hospital for it due to waiting times being too long. And majority of my appointments were also at a different private hospital because of the same reason. But that’s my experience. I will say my gp has always been very good at making sure I’ve been seen quickly (nhs) when necessary though. Will be interesting to see if this is some sort of common practice now of asking patients or just this particular gp you saw felt the need to ask you this