Appointment with GP - heart sunk

[MarriedThreeChildren]

Had an appointment last week with my GP. I’ve had a bad flare up from a chronic illness.

Went through everything, agreed to be referred back to hospital consultant. And then came the killer question

Do you have an insurance and want to go private or are we going NHS?

With the clear feeling that really the ‘right’ answer was going private :(:(

Since when is the NHS pushing patients to go private? Not so long ago it was such a big No-No. No GP would ever ask that question as a routine question. Rather people would ask if they knew they could get quicker/see who they wanted to see.

But here we go. The system is so fucked up that GPS are now trying to push people to go private rather than NHS.

I find it extremely worrying (I mean which insurance will ever cover me with a chronic condition that has been there for 15 years anyway??). Is it now the only way to get some decent medical support?
I have no idea when I will be able to see the consultant. GP ‘wasn’t aware about the lead times’ (last time I went to see them the wait was about 1 years. It was pre covid etc…. So I suspect…. much more than that…)

I don't think this is a new thing. I grew up with private health cover through my parents jobs and had several procedures done privately (this was in the 90's).

@Nutellaonall

Private medical insurance doesn’t cover you for chronic illnesses anyway! We are all stuffed!

This. If we are moving to a private system it's a long way to go before it actually covers most chronic conditions or get you much further than an appointment with consultant who decides you need treatment but it can't be done privately. Not only is it scary that this is the direction of travel .....but that its so badly planned? Health insurance here is not what it is in other countries and yet costs a fortune

@Horcruxe

But it isnt your GP's fault the wait is very long for your hospital appointment.

Just to add, it wont be the hospital's fault either.

Waiting times have been increasing since the last change of government, and, long before COVID.

You'd likely see the same consultant whether it be NHS or private anyway. You'd just be seen quicker!

My GP has always seemed pleased when I mentioned I had BUPA through work.

I know several people who have had to go private to get extremely painful conditions dealt with (hip replacement, cataract surgery, knee injuries) due to ridiculously long waiting lists on the NHS. When you factor into account that going private is not unusual and it offers you no discount on the tax you pay for the NHS, in reality many people in this country are paying twice for healthcare. Which makes it one of the most expensive systems in the world (and our private sector is less developed and therefore more expensive due to the NHS).

Its also a clear professional conflict of interest and banned in other professions. The fact that some consultants use NHS facilities to hold private clinics one day a week is utterly ridiculous.

That’s been a thing for at least 40 years. I was asked (or at least my parents were) if they had the money to go private for treatment for me in 1982

Not UK based but I assume the referral process is slightly different for Private and NHS. Many people have Insurance through work etc. Maybe they did not want to create more work for themselves and others by sending the referral on the wrong route.

Op, I am unable to get hold of my GP as the Ecsonsult has been taken down on their website, you can't book appointments online and nobody ever answers the phone. You can;t walk into the surgery any more either. They have essentially shut down to outside enquiries.

I suddenly got shingles that got out of control and didn't know what to do.
I looked online and found there are loads of private "pharmacies" registered by the NHS. I looked for the name of an oral shingles med online then I filled in a form requesting it, and they sent prescription meds to me (which I paid for). I had no idea about the NHS registering private pharmacies online and them sending out drugs knowing nothing at all about the patient. There are loads of them.
I think what we are seeing is the residualisation of the NHS, so that only people who can't afford any other care at all or are too sick to find it, will be dealt with. I am dirt poor by the way but found £20 for my treatment.

I am in Scotland. This has been a question asked by GPs for a long time, well before Covid.
Back in 2018 I was given the choice of urgent referral on private insurance or 20 week + wait for NHS, for what GP was convinced was a cancer ( she was correct).
There is no such thing as urgent in NHS Scotland, unless you are in an ambulance. It totally sucks, and breaks many a medics heart.

@SucculentChalice
Consultants holding private clinics in NHS facilities? Certainly not in my area, all private clinics are done in the Nuffield private hospital. I’ve never heard of any consultants being allowed to use NHS premises to run their clinics 🤔

@MissyB1
It is a done thing, they hire NHS rooms and theatres, which I guess helps the hospital out. Even Great Ormand street do this.

sorry but I think you are overthinking this although I understand why. There are many reasons why the GP would ask the question and none of them are to do with pushing the privatisation of the NHS.

[quote Rubyupbeat]@MissyB1
It is a done thing, they hire NHS rooms and theatres, which I guess helps the hospital out. Even Great Ormand street do this.[/quote]
Wow, I suppose they must have the space. We certainly don’t.

[quote MissyB1]@SucculentChalice
Consultants holding private clinics in NHS facilities? Certainly not in my area, all private clinics are done in the Nuffield private hospital. I’ve never heard of any consultants being allowed to use NHS premises to run their clinics 🤔[/quote]
I just had one last week in an NHS hospital. Lasted 15 minutes, nice little earner for the consultant involved because I couldn't get the appointment within a reasonable time in the NHS.

Its a really well known practice. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it.

I think this is what the government has been aiming for. The NHS not coping to the extent that people feel they have to go private or really suffer. Makes it easier to sell the NHS off to private American healthcare companies and pocket "their share" of the profit.

Even Great Ormond Street do this - of course they do, the Trust makes a fortune out of it.

Every NHS Trust that can, has a private wing or consulting rooms to make as much money as possible for the Trust. It certainly isn't the evil consultants making the biggest mint here.

Big name trusts can make mega bucks - people fly in from all over the world to go to the private suite at the Marsden. At UCLH they have a whole floor called 'Harley Street at UCLH'. Moorfields has a whole building over the road from the main hospital for private patients. The list goes on and on.

Even the total nonentity trust I used to work for had a set of rooms for private outpatients and small ward of single rooms for private surgical patients.

Those trusts would be gutted if their NHS consultants weren't doing private work as well to bring in the extra money.

[quote MissyB1]@SucculentChalice
Consultants holding private clinics in NHS facilities? Certainly not in my area, all private clinics are done in the Nuffield private hospital. I’ve never heard of any consultants being allowed to use NHS premises to run their clinics 🤔[/quote]
They will rent facilities in NHS buildings which in effect subsidises the NHS. There is also the little known aspect. Its better for the NHS if clinical equipment is well used so that it wears out and gets replaced with more modern options. Equipment that gets less use and is still in good nick will be at the end of the queue for replacement unless its actually no longer safe. Where I used to work actually had a small ward that was used by private patients. Any NHS resource it used was charged for and made a profit and it was staffed by people employed by the private company. Nurses etc could have both an NHS contract and a private one but could not work on the private ward during their NHS hours and vice versa. The small NHS hospital involved could not have afforded to fund the extra ward and as a matter of fact didn't need the beds as they were moving towards a care at home model. Winner all round.

@BoodleBug51

DH went private for cardiac investigations, and it took him to the top of the queue for investigations. Only the treatment he needs isn't available privately, it's only through a specialist NHS unit about 60 miles away. He's been waiting 7 months for "urgent" treatment and only after persistent chasing on my part has been given a date for the end of next month.

So we spent thousands for very little gain, tbh. It was the first thing our GP said too. I think they're just being realistic about the NHS waiting lists to tell the truth.

To be honest I think that is fair enough. Why should your husband jump the queue for the treatment because he could afford the initial tests privately?

@MissyB1

Its often done evenings and weekends when NHS clinic services don't run.

godmum They will rent facilities in NHS buildings which in effect subsidises the NHS. There is also the little known aspect. Its better for the NHS if clinical equipment is well used so that it wears out and gets replaced with more modern options. Equipment that gets less use and is still in good nick will be at the end of the queue for replacement unless its actually no longer safe. Where I used to work actually had a small ward that was used by private patients. Any NHS resource it used was charged for and made a profit and it was staffed by people employed by the private company. Nurses etc could have both an NHS contract and a private one but could not work on the private ward during their NHS hours and vice versa. The small NHS hospital involved could not have afforded to fund the extra ward and as a matter of fact didn't need the beds as they were moving towards a care at home model. Winner all round

An office or a room in a hospital has no need to be used outwith NHS times and does not suffer due to not being used in this way. And equipment which is used more frequently needs repaired more frequently too which means it is out of use for NHS patients. What needs to happen is that it is used for the NHS round the clock and not by NHS staff using it to make extra money for their private practice.

This is a very unregulated hybrid model and it is typical of the chaos the NHS system causes. The German, Dutch and French systems are far far better and this conflict of interest in the NHS is just an absolute carry on.

My go refused to recommend or refer my daughter to a private doctor even after saying that she should be seen quickly - but it wouldn’t be before three weeks on the NHS as there was a wait. She was ideologically against it. That really arsed me off.

I would rather GPs (and other medical professionals) were honest about the priority or lack thereof given to things on the NHS--rather than promising a service that doesn't exist.

So many times I or relatives have had referrals forgotten, 'lost', randomly cancelled, not rung back for...I had a GP agree to my referral request, which was a lie as I later found he'd decided not to make iton completely spurious grounds, and he'd decided not to tell me he wasn't making it. That decision would likely have cost my ability to have children if I hadn't chased it upand there's a fair chance it would have ended in me losing my uterus.

In my extended family I have someone who is gradually being crippled by a condition that requires specialist surgery with, granted, no guarantee of success. Most of her communication with doctors so far has been along the lines of "We want you to consider very carefully how you would feel if it didn't work" and "Are you sure your life is really that difficult as it is?" Reasonable questions to ask on their own--but this seems to be pretty much all they're talking about, with what looks like a clear push to get her 'deciding' she doesn't want treatment.

Yes, there are arguments to be had about funding the NHS--but first of all let's have an honest discussion about what the NHS is actually doing and what it sees its role as.

Just had a video consultation with a private GP for the first time. One of my children needed advice on a condition, decision needed to be made this week as to what to do. Their own GP couldn’t speak/email etc for over a week at best. They were very vague.

I googled and there were a half dozen private GPs near me. Two of them were too busy for new patients (their patients take out annual memberships). Found one who could video consult in a half hour and no problems to write referrals etc the same morning. 20 mins consult and referral email was £90.

The GP was great, very attentive, knowledgable and has helped hugely with decision to be made. Yes I am lucky I could throw money at the problem. I have never done anything like this before.

Point of my post is that I am certain 5 years ago none of these private GP practices existed in my area (not London area).

@Trulyweird1

I am in Scotland. This has been a question asked by GPs for a long time, well before Covid. Back in 2018 I was given the choice of urgent referral on private insurance or 20 week + wait for NHS, for what GP was convinced was a cancer ( she was correct). There is no such thing as urgent in NHS Scotland, unless you are in an ambulance. It totally sucks, and breaks many a medics heart.

So true, and I am very sorry to read that you were on the pointy end of this. Where we are (also Scotland) we still can't see GPs usually and many other things have just fallen by the wayside. A dear friend is experiencing woefully lacking cancer 'care' and mental health care is literally non existant. My already diagnosed DD has had no communication from Psychiatry since 01/21 - not a typo. And the real kicker? No private Psychiatrists within 50 miles even if she/I could afford that.

"I taught she would be happy to keep people off NHS lists were possible to speed things up for those who couldn’t afford insurance."

How does that work if it's the same doctor doing the work? It's just jumping the queue.