To think that just LTB doesn’t work once you have children?

[manysummersago]

I have to talk generally here. I know people claim that LTB isn’t often trotted out on here, but I think posters are often urged to think about leaving, even if it’s phrased in ways like ‘why are you still there / what do you get from this / I wouldn’t accept this.’

But once you have even one child, it isn’t as simple as just ending the relationship. I know a lot of people realise this but I think so many people believe that that’s that, you just live your life pretty much as you did before you met him just with the addition of your children.

However, this isn’t the case at all. You still have to manage contact and co parent to an extent. You have to continue to manage relationships with the family and try to agree to a shared approach to problems, which isn’t always easy when a relationship has ended.

I am sure a lot of people manage it admirably but it’s hardly stress free and for many people the remedy is probably worse than the disease if you like.

So - AIBU? I’m not talking about abuse or violence but marriages where perhaps the spark has gone, perhaps there is some selfish or thoughtless behaviour, perhaps you don’t have much in common.

If you're asking for relationship advice on aibu, your relationship is dead in the water.

People know it isn't simple. But some of these stories are so miserable and hopeless that it's the only way to make any change.

People don't tend to post on here unless the issue has become very serious.

Well that is true, but I have rarely seen people saying it’s easy to be a single parent - only that often it’s easier than many of the horrible situations people describe with truly terrible partners.

I agree OP

It's easy for strangers to throw out oh LTB as the solution when 9/10 posters come in here just to vent and get some feelings out and have no intention of breaking up their family.

It's easy for people to say LTB on here because they're not the ones that have to deal with the emotional, financial, and social consequences. It's a throwaway comment, more often than not.

This isn't to say that a good many posters shouldn't leave their awful partners, but it explains why it's trotted out ad nauseum.

Why can’t people say they wouldn’t put up with something they wouldn’t put up with? That’s not telling someone to leave, it’s offering an opinion which is presumably what anyone posting is after.

Generally, if you have a child or children it’s even more important to have high standards for how you expect to be treated. Far more often than I see LTB I see posters who are putting up with being treated like absolute crap, their kids are being treated as badly or worse and they minimise it with stuff like “but the kids adore him”, “he’s a great dad” (even though he’s never changed a nappy, made a meal, had them for an hour, only beats them sometimes), “we have a nice house” and she’s planning to stay and show her kids a horrible dysfunctional role model for an adult relationship.

Being scared to be alone isn’t a good reason to stay if it’s a crap relationship. And children know. They always know what’s really going even if people would rather pretend they don’t.

@workingmomlife

I agree OP

It's easy for strangers to throw out oh LTB as the solution when 9/10 posters come in here just to vent and get some feelings out and have no intention of breaking up their family.

Well, this is the problem with using MN to "vent". If you don't like the responses then you don't have to pay them any heed, but if you just want a passive listener who won't do anything but nod and hum, perhaps you need to keep it to real life friends.

I am sure a lot of people manage it admirably but it’s hardly stress free and for many people the remedy is probably worse than the disease if you like.

Managing contact is worse than spending all your time living with someone when you’re in an awful relationship?

@AnneLovesGilbert - I do know what you mean but ultimately the natural conclusion of ‘I wouldn’t put up with that’ - if the other person either refuses to do what is making the other unhappy or changes for a while then reverts to type - is ending the relationship.

@DrSbaitso I do disagree with that. I think that’s exactly what MN is for!

Would anyone really call or message their friend at 11 pm Sunday night and expect a response, or dominate longed for get togethers with marital woes? I think that’s a one way ticket to losing friends!

It’s not to say that people shouldn’t offer advice and considering ending the relationship might be part of that advice. But it isn’t something I’d personally do unless abuse etc., not because I am a martyr but because I know life would just continue to be strained but in a different way.

Personally I have never seen the point of exchanging one load of misery for another.

I do think that sometimes people are too quick to suggest abandoning a committed relationship, including when there are no children involved. (I'd agree that children further complicate matters, though.)

Each of us has our own 'line in the sand', so to speak, but some seem to feel that if a relationship isn't nearly perfect (by their own standards), one should immediately leave, and it's never that simple. Most don't actually mean it and wouldn't do it themselves.

Some also appear to have a skewed view of what is or isn't 'abuse'.

Personally I have never seen the point of exchanging one load of misery for another.

I don’t think you understand what it’s like to be in a really bad relationship. Women who leave abusive relationships often end up in financial hardship with housing uncertainty and no friends. That’s certainly a misery worth going through to escape a different type of misery.

It can be, @PurpleDaisies

When I say ‘managing contact’ I don’t mean ‘I’ll drop the kids off on Friday and collect on Sunday’ so don’t bother being sarcastic

How about your ex refusing to return your children?

How about constant criticisms from your ex and his family about your parenting?

How about parental alienation (it’s a thing.)

How about telling your eight year old he can’t have a mobile only for him to be given one by dad?

These are just examples I can think of off the top of my head but there are many more.

I know this isn’t every case. I know for some it is as simple as ‘I’ll drop off at this time.’ But for many it isn’t.

Read the end of my OP then @PurpleDaisies

I’m not talking about abuse or violence but marriages where perhaps the spark has gone, perhaps there is some selfish or thoughtless behaviour, perhaps you don’t have much in common

There you go.

Oh you’re one of those. You don’t want views that don’t fit with your opinion.

I think a large proportion of people on here either have a career that pays well enough so that you can survive in one income or they are ladies who are 50+ and have paid or are close to paying off their mortgage and would expect to stay in the home (which one poster did say to me after saying she couldn't stay with someone if the relationship was done). Some will have help from families or an inheritance somewhere on the horizon. It's totally different to finding the money to rent each month. If I didn't have a mortgage to pay or would expect a chunk of money from a house sale after a split, I would probably manage on my salary alone.

Sometime LTB is unhelpful for this reason.

Would anyone really call or message their friend at 11 pm Sunday night and expect a response, or dominate longed for get togethers with marital woes?

Not at 11pm, no. Perhaps at 10am with coffee thrown in. That's part and parcel of friendship.

But I also wouldn't go on to MN, a massive public forum, and tell everyone how my husband treats me like white goods with tits and expect the wide Internet world to nod, smile, say "men, what are they LIKE?" and leave it at that.

You may think MN is exactly for nothing but venting but until you have the agreement of the other zillion users, you'll have to accept that they don't all see themselves as passive soundboards.

@PurpleDaisies I don’t know how you’ve extrapolated that.

You said ‘I don’t think you understand what it’s like to be in a really bad relationship. Women who leave abusive relationships often end up in financial hardship with housing uncertainty and no friends. That’s certainly a misery worth going through to escape a different type of misery.’

And you are right - I’m fortunate never to have been in that position, however I do know that if a woman is experiencing abuse then absolutely the marriage should end.

However, given that I did say that in my OP, it is reasonable to point this out, surely? It hardly means I am shutting down a discussion

Except I didn’t suggest that everyone should say ‘men, what are they LIKE’

There are some really peculiar responses here and it does show how when you need advice on your relationship, MN can be unhelpful.

For example, I wouldn’t be able to just meet friends 10am Monday … I work, and so do they. Perhaps that’s me being awkward and I understand that you didn’t mean that totally literally but I do think this weird idea that you can’t post if you won’t or can’t leave is peculiar in the extreme.

It is utterly miserable to live with someone who is selfish and thoughtless. That might not count as “abusive” but it grinds you down. It’s like living under a constant cloud. Going it alone might bring other challenges but plenty of women have made that decision and haven’t regretted it.

Yes, and I do agree with that. However, it can be equally grinding and relentless in a different way if they are living apart from you but continuing to make your life a misery in a different way.

That isn’t necessarily a reason for not leaving, thats always going to be down to the individual, but the point is it isn’t the case that once you leave you are free.

Actually, personally, I found having kids has made me much less willing to put up with any shit from DH and I'd be much more prepared to leave now to protect them than I would have done were it just me.

as it stands we are perfectly happy, but there have been moments where I've felt DH was being a selfish arse and thoughtless, and yes I text my friends and say he's a dick - we then arrange a get together with wine, rant it out for 30 mins and then get on with our evening.

If I wasn't happy overall and I didn't love him anymore then I'd have no qualms about leaving or asking him to leave, I'm 35 - and would not wish to spend the next 50 years of my life living like that.

Except I didn’t suggest that everyone should say ‘men, what are they LIKE’

You said that you think MN is for use as a sounding board for people who want to whinge "vent" and not hear any possible solutions. You said that was ^exactly^ what it is for.

The very fact that you're here now complaining that the jillion users who read the threads don't agree with you and generally choose to offer possible solutions - of which "end the relationship" quite often is the only choice that will cause anything to change - suggests that venting really isn't what MN is for and anyone who just wants a moan should perhaps find a real life friend instead.

Besides, nobody actually ends their happy relationship because the vipers told them to. Most of them disappear and continue being miserable.

there have been moments where I've felt DH was being a selfish arse and thoughtless, and yes I text my friends and say he's a dick - we then arrange a get together with wine, rant it out for 30 mins and then get on with our evening.

That's what friends are for.

You can't shout into the MN void and dictate the responses you get back.

Someone else said that, not me.

I don’t see any harm in it being used as such, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with offering advice either.

What I am saying is that if you choose to end the relationship (general you) it isn’t the case that life will automatically be any happier and I do think that gets missed sometimes.