Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How are people still watch horse racing/going to the races?

160 replies

savedbyanalien · 08/04/2022 08:55

Utterly barbaric 🤮

All this talk about the Grand National this morning.

Watching people ride these beautiful animals for sport, and if the poor beast were to fall, that's it... straight to the vets to be euthanised.

Dressing up and going to the races is gross. And I say this as someone who enjoyed doing this in my early 20s. I'm embarrassed.

Anyone else agree with me or AIBU?

OP posts:
Cryofthecurlew · 08/04/2022 13:55

@LakieLady

I haven't followed horse racing for nearly 20 years. I was never a fan of National Hunt racing, because I think it's more dangerous for the horses than flat racing, and I particularly hate the Grand National because the fences are so big and the field so packed that the risk of injury to the horses is too great imo.

But then I started to learn more about racing generally: how the horses start training really early, before they're fully grown, and consequently often suffer skeletal problems, how they get pulmonary haemhorrage from over-exertion, are given painkillers and anti-inflammatories so that they can still run when injured, the use of the tongue tie - none of which is acceptable to me, so now I have nothing to do with it.

And I think they should be much stricter with jockeys' use of the whip.

I agree I have ridden racehorses and successfully rehomed ex race horses many of the practices are dubious at best and often cruel. But the solution is not to ban racing or to turn ex race horses out into the wild but to strictly regulate every aspect of it whether it is the number of foals bred every year the way the are kept and trained or the conditions on the race track. Closer attention needs to be paid to confirmation, in particular of front legs, e.g. pastern length and angle and foot shape, angle and quality of the hoof itself.
Zoflorabore · 08/04/2022 13:55

We live a couple of miles from Aintree and every year it’s the same, helicopters back and forth over our house from the airport to Aintree for the rich and famous.

Add to that the ladies day which gets even more OTT every year in the way of beauty preparations and clothes and it’s just a big hype. I’ve not been and I’ve never wanted to. As a child we always were asked to pick a horse for the national but as I grew up I stopped it. Probably easy for me as I have no interest in horse racing. My dad and brothers sometimes go and do bet now and again in general. I just feel sorry for the horses.

ememem84 · 08/04/2022 13:55

@TurningUpMyStereotype

Definitely, but you can never eliminate risk in it’s entirety.

Well you can. Ban it.

But then if you ban racing what happens to the horses. And those employed by the industry. The immediate employees trainers the jockeys the grooms etc. abs the more distant ones - hotels cafes bars near racecourses etc.

I’m not sure how easy it would be to retrain a racehorse to an eventer or a riding school horse. But suspect not all would be successful. Then what happens to them.

latriciamcneal · 08/04/2022 13:56

Same reason they still eat meat and dairy; comfortable denial of the horror they cause for animals in favour of personal enjoyment, convenience or habit.

Newuser82 · 08/04/2022 14:02

@LindaEllen people regularly die in the London marathon and that's still going.

TillyTopper · 08/04/2022 14:05

You're right, they are incredible animals. So leave them the fuck alone?

Although they are only around for racing. I'm fine with that - but don't think they would be gamboling round the fields if racing didn't happen.

RincewindsHat · 08/04/2022 14:06

And pray tell what do you propose we do with the horses that no longer have a use? Rough estimates are that there are about 8,000 broodmares, 200 stallions, 4,200 foals, 4,300 yearlings and then 7,500 horses in training as we speak.

What do you think those horses are all destined for? Do you think their wealthy owners buy up acres and acres of land and put up luxury stable blocks with underfloor heating so the horsies can grow old and grey and fat and die quietly in their sleep? Spoiler alert: they don't.

Almost all these horses will end up going for dog food at the sales. Even if they won their owners money during the careers.

If racing isn't permitted, horses stop being bred for rich twits who have nothing better to do than waste their money on racehorses, and then those horses don't end up being discarded like trash and sent for dog food because their usefulness has been outlived.

So really, what does it matter what happens to those horses? They're almost all destined for dog food anyway whether it's sooner or later but if racing weren't allowed we'd prevent the whole farce before they end up as dog food.

Newuser82 · 08/04/2022 14:06

@toastfiend

Your point re: why are our lives more important to theirs applies to my point about leisure riding and private horse ownership, too - I wouldn't want to live in miserable conditions with my mental and physical needs not being met, but no one ever says a word about that aspect of the equestrian world, probably because that would mean they'd feel uncomfortable about taking their little darlings to the local riding school or pony trekking whilst on holiday.
You are right! I own horses, they live out, are exercises regularly, checked by vet, farrier, physio, saddler, dentist very regularly. I know many, many horses who are not. I know many who are stabled for 24hrs a day with perhaps an hours exercise a day if they are lucky, stressed, ulcer ridden horses , they must be miserable. They are herd animals. Designed to be together and lots of people take them , stick them in a stable for the majority of their lives and that's perfectly acceptable. They can't afford regular treatment from farrier etc but have many horses. It's ridiculous.
deadlanguage · 08/04/2022 14:10

[quote Newuser82]@LindaEllen people regularly die in the London marathon and that's still going. [/quote]
People choose for themselves to compete in the marathon, the same is not the case for racehorses.

BadLad · 08/04/2022 14:19

People choose for themselves to compete in the marathon, the same is not the case for racehorses.

A little bit of thought would have made it obvious to you that when she was talking about the London Marathon, she was contradicting this:

If 6 runners had died in the 100m sprint since 2011, it wouldn't be done anymore

Cryofthecurlew · 08/04/2022 14:21

”I’m not sure how easy it it to retrain a racehorse to an eventer or a riding school horse.”
A lot depends on if they are flat horses or hurdlers. IME and other those that run on the flat especially those that run over short distances are often difficult to retrain and highly unlikely to ever settle as riding school horses because as a general principle the standard of the average rider in your average riding school is pretty low. Riding stables have liability insurance and owners have to ensure horses provided are exceedingly safe. Hurdlers are easier and point to pointers even easier to retrain but again many will be happy or suitable in a riding school environment. Thoroughbreds did make good eventers but the tough requirements of eventing mean that good confirmation particularly legs and feet, no previous tendon injuries all problems seen in ex race horse means that many are not suitable. Secondly the emphasis now placed on dressage and the changes in course design now increasingly favours warm bloods.
Of course there are exceptions but generally retraining and rehoming ex racehorses is not a doddle it requires consistent knowledgeable training and a competent rider.

CrotchetyQuaver · 08/04/2022 14:21

Racehorses live like kings, it costs vast amounts to breed them and keep them in training. Those that are entered for a race are thoroughly prepared in advance, if there's any doubt in the day that they're maybe not fit to run then they'll be pulled. ANYTHING to do with horses carries a risk which their connections are fully aware of. Don't think for one minute that people don't give a damn if the worst happens, you couldn't be more wrong.

No I don't think it's "barbaric" but each to their own. Only clever brave bold horses would run the national and many of those that do go on to have wonderful lives post racing. One old horse I knew who had run in the GN had a wonderful life as a working horse for many years, loved his new job, met the Queen a few more times and the day he didn't want to do it any more aged 25 his owner did what was necessary. And was very sad about it even though it was inevitable that day would come. He would never have been happy rotting in a field being retired. A truly exceptional horse and I would think that applies to all the runners.

ronjobbins · 08/04/2022 14:22

@MiniTheMinx

Unless you are vegan, use only products not tested on animals, and happy not to take medication when ill then I find this over sentimental vomiting a bit hysterical.
Behave Hmm
ForTheLoveOfSleep · 08/04/2022 14:23

@TurningUpMyStereotype

Unless you are vegan, use only products not tested on animals, and happy not to take medication when ill then I find this over sentimental vomiting a bit hysterical.

I am vegan and obviously don’t use products tested on animals. As for medication, I’m fortunate enough not to have needed any since I became vegan many years ago. I campaign to stop animal testing though, at the moment people have no alternative which isn’t their fault.

Don't be ridiculous. Everything has been tested on animals. Maybe the conpany that produces the products you use didn't do it themselves but, at some point in history some company tested every ingredient in there on animals. Therefore allowing every other company to claim "not tested on animals". Are you vaccinated? Have you drunk alcohol? Do you use gas energy? All of these products were tested and are still being on animals for possible long term side effects.
Newuser82 · 08/04/2022 14:32

@BadLad

People choose for themselves to compete in the marathon, the same is not the case for racehorses.

A little bit of thought would have made it obvious to you that when she was talking about the London Marathon, she was contradicting this:

If 6 runners had died in the 100m sprint since 2011, it wouldn't be done anymore

👍🏻🙈
TurningUpMyStereotype · 08/04/2022 14:33

Don't be ridiculous. Everything has been tested on animals. Maybe the conpany that produces the products you use didn't do it themselves but, at some point in history some company tested every ingredient in there on animals. Therefore allowing every other company to claim "not tested on animals".
Are you vaccinated? Have you drunk alcohol? Do you use gas energy? All of these products were tested and are still being on animals for possible long term side effects.

Vegans avoid animal products as far as is possible and practical. I don’t know why people try to do this ‘gotcha’ thing with people that try to minimise their negative impact to animals. I don’t drink alcohol and only had vaccinations in childhood.

Cryofthecurlew · 08/04/2022 14:33

I think some loss is inevitable but that applies to all horses and friends eventer heading for Badminton slipped on the road busted it’s front tendon and had to be destroyed. But we can reduce loss I’ve seen unfit horses at point to point meetings making them more prone to injury, poorly bred horses it’s hard to breed a Derby winner but you’re definitely not going to breed one if you breed rubbish with rubbish, horses bred from with shockingly bad confirmation and temperament, age limits need to be raised to encourage trainers to back horses when they are older and more safely measure need to be introduced at race courses. Money is being put into retraining of race horses but probably more need to be done and those who can’t be retrained should be humanely destroyed in the environment they are familiar with.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 08/04/2022 14:35

My grandfather worked with horses all his life. He was a stablehand in the Camden underground stables before WWI, lied about his age to join up and then looked after what could be termed the Warhorses. After surviving (barely, but at least the Germans dug him out from underneath bits of horse, stuck a metal plate in his head and then fed and clothed him until he was freed from a POW camp shortly after Armistice Day), he continued to work with horses.

He had a story of how he and the other stable hands thrashed a drunk jockey for being cruel to the horses (now about 100 years ago) and the boss just decided to studiously ignore the summary justice. They loved the horses and did all they could to keep them safe, well and happy.

He wasn't a fan of the National because of how dangerous it was for the horses - he felt that it was too much of a risk for them. And he clearly despised the use of whips in the way they were used for racing. He also detested hunting, as that was a meaningless activity based upon cruelty when, as he put it 'a shotgun's more use than a red jacket if you're trying to keep foxes out of the chickens'. Hunting Otters made him incandescent with fury, coursing was 'a bloody pointless activity when you could use those dogs to catch a couple of rabbits for dinner' and he never quite forgave my grandmother for buying fur coats following a legacy as they were 'for vanity, not warmth' and used to refer to her coats as 'those poor bloody dead things in your wardrobe'.

However, what he also said was that some horses need to race. They love it. You can see the ones who love it beforehand - their ears are up, the energy is obvious; they're excited, they're happy, they know what's coming and they can't wait to do it. And whilst some love the flat, some love going over sticks.

For him, the issue was the money and who he called the Bastards. They were the ones who didn't care if horses were injured as long as they won. They were the ones who made the jumps too big because the punters wanted it to be more exciting and would pay to see horses taking greater risks, not really caring about the deaths other than if they meant the loss of a stake. They were the ones who didn't really give a shit about horses or racing but wanted to go to dress up (presumably in their poor bloody dead things), eat fancy food and never actually look anywhere near the course.

I think he'd approve of the way pressure has been applied to make jumps safer and the changes in animal welfare legislation - but he'd also say that it still isn't enough - the money involved ensures that it isn't enough, but whilst people are prepared to bet more than they have on a particular colour of silk, there will still be too many life ending injuries.

He didn't want racing to end altogether, though - he'd already witnessed the near extinction of heavy horse breeds due to their not being needed anymore and horses were his life and love; the world would be a lesser place without them. He'd have nothing but contempt for people who would say 'so what?' or 'good, they shouldn't have existed in the first place' or 'well, they might die in pain so it's better that they never existed'.

But then again, people who have actually witnessed death on a battlefield tend to feel differently about things compared to those who have never known anything more than a little discomfort and existential angst from a position of absolute affluence.

Cryofthecurlew · 08/04/2022 14:37

”only had vaccinations in childhood”
So as you’ve significantly increased your risk of getting and Covid abs ending up in hospital will you decline any treatment because it’s tested on animals?
Or maybe that’s another thread Grin.

deadlanguage · 08/04/2022 14:38

@BadLad

People choose for themselves to compete in the marathon, the same is not the case for racehorses.

A little bit of thought would have made it obvious to you that when she was talking about the London Marathon, she was contradicting this:

If 6 runners had died in the 100m sprint since 2011, it wouldn't be done anymore

Yes, and the point is that’s fine (albeit sad) because because humans make our own choice and risk assessment, but animals don’t exactly sign themselves up.
BadLad · 08/04/2022 14:41

You're saying that as if @Newuser82 was wrong in her post. They were not wrong - they were pointing out that someone else's point was wrong.

Your point is completely separate.

deadlanguage · 08/04/2022 14:43

Where did I say she was wrong?

TurningUpMyStereotype · 08/04/2022 14:47

So as you’ve significantly increased your risk of getting and Covid abs ending up in hospital will you decline any treatment because it’s tested on animals?
Or maybe that’s another thread

Not that my medical choices are any of your business, but I weighed up my chance of being seriously ill against having the vaccine and decided against it. I had covid recently, felt rough, but was fine. The chances of me being seriously ill as a very fit and healthy 40 ish year old were/are tiny. As I said, vegans avoid animal products as far as possible and practical. HTH.

Sunflower987 · 08/04/2022 14:49

@veronicagoldberg

You misjudge humanity's empathy. Most people just don't give a fuck about others, animal or human.
This^^
Cryofthecurlew · 08/04/2022 14:51

I just curious I do accept the chances are small but if you did end up in hospital because you didn’t have your vaccine because of your stance?