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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How are people still watch horse racing/going to the races?

160 replies

savedbyanalien · 08/04/2022 08:55

Utterly barbaric 🤮

All this talk about the Grand National this morning.

Watching people ride these beautiful animals for sport, and if the poor beast were to fall, that's it... straight to the vets to be euthanised.

Dressing up and going to the races is gross. And I say this as someone who enjoyed doing this in my early 20s. I'm embarrassed.

Anyone else agree with me or AIBU?

OP posts:
savedbyanalien · 08/04/2022 12:36

@CaveMum And pray tell what do you propose we do with the horses that no longer have a use? Rough estimates are that there are about 8,000 broodmares, 200 stallions, 4,200 foals, 4,300 yearlings and then 7,500 horses in training as we speak.

Erm... stop breeding and rehome the rest?

OP posts:
TurningUpMyStereotype · 08/04/2022 12:37

Perhaps i can suggest you redirect your emotional concern to those really suffering, either animals or people in Ukraine, Yemen, Syria etc.

Are you incapable of caring about multiple issues?

worriedatthistime · 08/04/2022 12:38

@savedbyanalien stop breeding would be the end of them and who is going go home 10000 horses
Thats just unrealistic and an animal extinct

worriedatthistime · 08/04/2022 12:39

You can never live a life without an animal suffering that is just a simple fact
Even within the animal world their is a hierarchy and food chain

deadlanguage · 08/04/2022 12:40

[quote worriedatthistime]@LindaEllen its called being top if the food chain
Thats life
If we didn't have horse racing we wouldn't have the horses as they wouldn't just be living in the wild
Race horses have pretty good lifes prob better than many that own them as pets[/quote]
There are horses in the wild though…

Chely · 08/04/2022 12:41

I think it should be a thing of the past. I think the same of things like boxing too.

savedbyanalien · 08/04/2022 12:43

@bluebellsandcustard

Are you serious? Racehorses are some of the best cared for animals on the planet.

Perhaps i can suggest you redirect your emotional concern to those really suffering, either animals or people in Ukraine, Yemen, Syria etc.

Fucking hell. I do have compassion for those fleeing war too. It is possible you know, to care about more than one thing.

OP posts:
ThinWomansBrain · 08/04/2022 12:53

YANBU - I also find it abhorrent that BBC's radio 4 chooses to plug racing tips twice daily in the middle of it's leading current affairs program.
Lockdown would have been a perfectly good time to quietly sideline this slot, which not only promotes horseracing, but encourages gambling in a way that is completely out of context. If you watch/listen to a sports or racing program, fair enough - but what is it's place in the middle of a mainstream current affairs program?

LimeSegment · 08/04/2022 12:54

I don't watch horse racing and I think it's horrible. But I see why some people don't mind it, it's nothing in terms of cruelty compared to the meat and dairy industries. And most people still think eating meat is fine. So why would they think horse racing isn't.

LimeSegment · 08/04/2022 12:59

I think this is something people are coming around on though. Just five years ago I rarely heard any opposition to horse racing, I'm sure there was but it wasn't a mainstream view. Now many people think that way, there's lots of groups against it and there's always articles in the MSM about this topic around big event days.

Georgeskitchen · 08/04/2022 13:00

Horse racing is a large industry in this country ( and many others, of course) much has been achieved over the past few decades in regards to animal welfare. Lowing the the national hunt fences, etc.
Jockeys whipping etc. Have those who wish it banned given a thought to the many employees in this industry, ending up jobless and possibly homeless?
No have they hell!!

bluebellsandcustard · 08/04/2022 13:01

@TurningUpMyStereotype

Perhaps i can suggest you redirect your emotional concern to those really suffering, either animals or people in Ukraine, Yemen, Syria etc.

Are you incapable of caring about multiple issues?

Of course I can, but if I had to rank my concerns an animal continually kept in its prime, would be lower than an awful lot of other things.

I'm more outraged by Halal slaughter, for instance. How that is allowed is beyond me.

TurningUpMyStereotype · 08/04/2022 13:06

Of course I can, but if I had to rank my concerns an animal continually kept in its prime, would be lower than an awful lot of other things.

This isn’t a thread to rank concerns though. It’s a thread discussing horse racing. Imagine if on every thread, someone came in and said there’s bigger things to worry about.

ThinWomansBrain · 08/04/2022 13:07

Have those who wish it banned given a thought to the many employees in this industry, ending up jobless and possibly homeless?
Just think, they could have used that argument to keep concentration camps running aftre WW2, & to keep it more contemporary, what about the Russian invasion of Ukraine? Not just the Russian soldiers, but all the mercenaries that they're recruiting from Syria, wouldn't we all feel so sorry for them if they weren't being kept in gainful employment.

CaveMum · 08/04/2022 13:08

@savedbyanalien regime them where? As other posters have pointed out ex-racehorses are not novice rides and need competent riders to handle them.

Yes you could probably rehome the foals/yearlings to a certain extent (there’s not exactly a call for 8000+ horses in the leisure industry right now) but all the broodmares and stallions and the horses in training? A small percentage could be rehomed but the rest? I’m afraid euthanasia would be the end for most of them.

WisherWood · 08/04/2022 13:26

and if the poor beast were to fall, that's it... straight to the vets to be euthanised.

There's a huge amount to dislike about horseracing but that isn't it. Most that fall are not euthanised. Some that don't fall are but the decisions made at that stage are probably the least of it. It's amongst the kinder things they do. If you doubt this, read about Barbaro, who was not euthanised when he should have been. Unfortunately horses do suffer catastrophic injuries and when they do, euthanising them is by far the kinder option.

As for the rest - horses need to be treated like horses, not kings. It's interesting that people are mentioning the quality of the stabling but not the quality of the turnout. And the joy of running and not being able to force them? Of course you can force them. And horses run more out of fear than anything else. In the flight/ fight/ freeze response the horse's preferred option is fleeing. The reason they follow others even without the jockey is herd instinct, not joy. Notice how few of them jump whilst loose. For every Red Rum leading the field with or without a jockey, there are a thousand who will simply run across the front of a fence. They're notorious for causing other horses to fall in the Grand National.

And yes, we could gradually wind down racing. We could gradually have fewer thoroughbreds, in the same way we have few plough horses because very few are now needed on farms, or fewer hackneys because cabs are now motorised. It's why we no longer have massive horse sales any more, because horses are much more leisure animals than working animals, at least in most of the world. You can't just continue with something riven with cruelty on the grounds that the only reason we breed those horses is to perpetuate this cycle.

If people loved their animals as much as they claim, they would keep them and not race them. But they don't do they? You can pick up an ex racehorse for hook money. Now just think about the meaning of that hook.

Bonjovispjs · 08/04/2022 13:29

Totally agree with you op!

Sixlegsfoward88 · 08/04/2022 13:31

YABU. There are always a couple of threads like this every year around the time of the Grand National and nothing at other times. Where are the concerned people the rest of the year? Many of them are probably eating lunch in their cosy offices or homes while the equine industry has been up and about since dawn, working hard for little reward, in all weathers, to provide good living standards for the horses in their care 24/7. And most people in horse racing DO care very much about the welfare of their horses under their charge. These are people who spent every moment of every working day working alongside these magnificent animals. As with every industry there are a few rotten apples but now there are so many more welfare rules in place, lots of on course testing, outstanding veterinary care and cooling systems on race courses , and cameras everywhere , the horse racing industry is constantly raising its game.

I am not naieve about racing as horses do get injured and die but the welfare standards but lots of rules and regulations have been introduced to improve the safety of jumps and the treatment of racehorses. Welfare standards are improving all of the time, we now have much more knowledge about horses in general and the thoroughbreds in particular than we did, and as horse racing is an industry and a business, there are many more owners who have a monetary interest in keeping their horse fit and well. And there is now much more interest in the Retraining of Racehorses and more emphasis on what happens to them after retirement:

www.ror.org.uk/

The confirmation of the horse (heavy body mass on relatively spindly legs) means that injuries do occur on the race track but they also occur in the paddock and out hacking too. If you are a horse-owner you are aware of this all the time. And the truth is, that the magnificent thoroughbred just wouldn't exist if there wasn't a racing industry and they would become extinct just as heavy horses are disappearing now, because they cost too much to feed and keep. The Suffolk Punch is now rarer than the giant panda because it doesn't have a job that it was bred to do. The same thing would happen to thoroughbreds. And to my mind, there is nothing too much wrong with an animal doing what it was bred to do.

And btw, if you have worked out a way to get a 500kg animal to race when it doesn't want to, then you are a more skilled horseman than I am. Horses are not allowed to race if they consistently show reluctance at the start, and they are required under the rules to be re-schooled. Some will refuse that though. Look up the career of a horse called Mad Moose if you don't believe me! He became famous and developed a following precisely because he was reluctant to race!

And don't forget that the racing industry does provide employment for many people: trainers, farriers, saddlers, vets, stable lads and lasses, administrators, sales staff, buyers, breeders, stud farms, horse transport companies, caterers, clothing shops, wine merchants, equine dentists, equine osteopaths and feed sellers, fencing merchants, hay merchants,. and people who offer services like specialist schooling, equine swimming pools, equine photographers and portrait painters, land management specialists etc. These are jobs that are very often very much needed employment in rural areas.

The Grand National isn't my favourite race as I don't enjoy all the hype around it and the height v speed of the race is a difficult equation to get right. If you lower the jumps, then the speed increases. And then horses are bred more for speed more than stamina which creates its own issues about sturdiness of bone. But the height of jumps has been lowered in response to public demand! Trouble is, the general public isn't always very knowledgeable about horses, not like the days when we all relied on the horse as our only means of transport and pulling power. Then everyone had some knowledge but we have since become distanced from these amazing creatures and and what they can do.

What I dislike is the drinking culture in racing that a pp mentioned below. I like a tipple as much as the next person but the selling of alcohol has got out of hand. So many people go horse-racing on high days and holidays nowadays just to dressed up and rat-arsed without even casting a backward glance at these magnificent creatures parading around the paddock or without a thought to all of the graft and effort that was invested in getting them there.

I still defend the industry though because on ordinary days of the week there are so many knowledgeable and genuine horse men and women involved in it, who genuinely care about the welfare of the horse within it, who put the welfare of these amazing animals at the forefront of everything they do.

Think about it, a thoroughbred race horse is all about movement with lungs the size of ten tennis courts (if they could be opened our flat) which expand and contract 150 times a minute, with a heart bigger than a volleyball which can reach 240 beats a minute, with a bicep leg muscle that increases in power about 100 times as it races, with a natural turbo charger of red blood cells that can be released on demand from the spleen, is designed to do the job it has been bred over centuries to do. Would we really want these incredible creatures to disappear off the face of the planet? Because that is what will happen if racing is banned. They are expensive to keep and train, feed and nurture. Very few people are going to do it for fun. And surely there is nothing more natural then an animal doing what it's body is designed to do. A racehorse may only appear at the racecourse three to six times a year, maybe only ten times in its life, but the rest of the time it is being looked after well, by knowledgeable people, with access to great veterinary care, fed well, is exercised most mornings on the gallops and in many yards has access to turnout grazing and a couple of months off in the summer. It's not the awful life that so many people on here are saying.

People have a strange idea that a horse is at its ultimate best in a wild herd, roaming the hills and valleys of Wyoming and Argentina, ignoring the thousands of years they have lived alongside and been domesticated to a certain extent by man . But honestly, I've visited horses in both of those locations and there is a lot of hardship in wild herds. Many are starving, undernourished, with a large worm burden, with skin issues, dragging around broken limbs, suffering slow agonising deaths, it's not always pretty to see. People forget that nature in the raw is cruel.

If I was going to campaign about horse cruelty then honestly, I would look to improve the conditions of hundreds and hundreds privately owned outgrown cobs and ponies, with overgrown feet, who are stuck in the corner of a field in all weathers for years on end and forgotten about without any stimulation or environmental enrichment with minimal input from their owners, because that is proper neglect.

BadLad · 08/04/2022 13:32

@ThinWomansBrain

Have those who wish it banned given a thought to the many employees in this industry, ending up jobless and possibly homeless? Just think, they could have used that argument to keep concentration camps running aftre WW2, & to keep it more contemporary, what about the Russian invasion of Ukraine? Not just the Russian soldiers, but all the mercenaries that they're recruiting from Syria, wouldn't we all feel so sorry for them if they weren't being kept in gainful employment.
The flaw in this thinking is that the Russian army existed before the invasion of Ukraine and will probably continue to exist even afterwards. And most ex-soldiers have more in the way of transferrable skills than ex-racehorces.
Maestoso · 08/04/2022 13:37

I won't watch the grand national. Sadly, the racing aspect of the TB industry is the least of a Thoroughbred's worries. The breeding of TBs is unethical. For those who are not aware, you can look up Caslick procedure, which is often performed on fillies for health reasons and only necessary as selective breeding for 'fast' has resulted in a tilted pelvis.

TBs must be bred via natural covering and cannot be registered if bred via AI. In the wild the mare courts the stallion and he is respectful as he's vulnerable to kicks if he's not. When she's ready, a mare may be covered several times a day. To maximise stud fees a TB stallion can earn, this would not be viable in the domestic setting, therefore mares are often restrained with hobbles which also prevent her kicking the stallion and they can be covered whether they want to be or not.

You will hear that race horses are treated like kings. Horses are very adaptable by nature and can stand in beautiful stables with deep beds all day save for exercise, but is that really being treated like a king when a horse's nature is to spend all day every day with conspecifics roaming, loafing, grazing, breeding? Not everything natural is good (horses in the wild suffer illness, injury, disease and parasites) but what we perceive as a good quality of life may not be what makes a horse happiest. It's just something he can put up with, often with the help of stereotypic behaviours.

And then there's the waste from the industry, the horses that don't make it, and those that do but don't have responsible owners.

People either don't know or do know and don't care.

Cryofthecurlew · 08/04/2022 13:41

”There are horses in the wild”
This comment shows a total lack of knowledge about horses and thoroughbred in particular.
In the UK there are actually no wild ponies there are ponies roaming on national parks like Dartmoor Exmoor and the New Forrest. I believe in the New Forrest for example they are all owned and rounded up every year and youngster are sold. These ponies have adapted to their surrounding and many for example Exmoor ponies have thick coats to keep them warm in tonight winter conditions, tough feet and their small size because of the harsh winter conditions they live and as any owner of one of our native breeds will cheerfully testify they get overweight on thin air (obesity causes a serious and agonising foot condition in horses) they have adapted to live on poor quality grazing found it n their environments These animal of course are born “in the wild but their numbers are also limited to maintain their health because the areas they live on are limited in size this is not the US with thousands of miles of open space they can freely roam. Nature is of cruel youngster will die as will older ponies some may suffer before they die.
Thoroughbred in contrast and race horses in particular are exceedingly domesticated are significantly larger, often have poor feet and limbs, they are more complex to feed they do not get fat on air requiring high quality grazing to maintain weight and lastly where would you release these animals to live this wild life who is going to look after them?

LakieLady · 08/04/2022 13:45

I haven't followed horse racing for nearly 20 years. I was never a fan of National Hunt racing, because I think it's more dangerous for the horses than flat racing, and I particularly hate the Grand National because the fences are so big and the field so packed that the risk of injury to the horses is too great imo.

But then I started to learn more about racing generally: how the horses start training really early, before they're fully grown, and consequently often suffer skeletal problems, how they get pulmonary haemhorrage from over-exertion, are given painkillers and anti-inflammatories so that they can still run when injured, the use of the tongue tie - none of which is acceptable to me, so now I have nothing to do with it.

And I think they should be much stricter with jockeys' use of the whip.

bluebellsandcustard · 08/04/2022 13:48

YABU I've always loved horses and racing and have had the pleasure of rehoming racehorses where they've lived out their days with me.

I also ride race and exracehorses so I get to enjoy their magnificence regularly.

They are incredible animals.

savedbyanalien · 08/04/2022 13:49

@bluebellsandcustard

YABU I've always loved horses and racing and have had the pleasure of rehoming racehorses where they've lived out their days with me.

I also ride race and exracehorses so I get to enjoy their magnificence regularly.

They are incredible animals.

You're right, they are incredible animals. So leave them the fuck alone?

OP posts:
deadlanguage · 08/04/2022 13:53

@Cryofthecurlew there are wild horses outside the U.K. (as opposed to ponies). And there’s no need to release them - just stop deliberately breeding them and the problem resolves fairly quickly!