Rishi's wife does not pay tax (millions!!) on dividends!

[FlowerArranger]

From today's Guardian :

Rishi Sunak’s multi-millionaire wife claims non-domicile status, it has emerged, which allows her to save millions of pounds in tax on dividends collected from her family’s IT business empire.

Akshata Murthy, who receives about £11.5m in annual dividends from her stake in the Indian IT services company Infosys, declares non-dom status, a scheme that allows people to avoid tax on foreign earnings.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/06/rishi-sunaks-wife-claims-non-domicile-status?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Anyone as outraged by this as I am? I mean what the actual fuck?

I'm not a tax lawyer but with time on my hands I'm reading the rather boring gov guidance.

Domicile of choice
5.16 You’ve the legal capacity to acquire a new domicile at the age of 16 (in Scotland this has previously been from a younger age, see RDRM22020). Broadly, to acquire a domicile of choice, you must:

leave your current country of domicile
settle in another country

So your domicile of origin does not remain fixed forever does it?

@mrshoho

I'm not a tax lawyer but with time on my hands I'm reading the rather boring gov guidance.

Domicile of choice
5.16 You’ve the legal capacity to acquire a new domicile at the age of 16 (in Scotland this has previously been from a younger age, see RDRM22020). Broadly, to acquire a domicile of choice, you must:

leave your current country of domicile
settle in another country

So your domicile of origin does not remain fixed forever does it?

No, your domicile of origin does remain fixed. I'll repeat myself from an earlier post:

There are 3 types of domicile - origin, dependency, and choice. We can ignore dependency as she's not a minor.

Your domicile of origin is set in stone at birth and will never ever change. It's like your date of birth. It's something that just is and won't ever change.

You can acquire a domicile of choice which will take priority to domicile of origin (which will still exist, it doesn't change or disappear) if HMRC agrees you meet the requirements. The standard are very high and require you to have an intention to settle permanently in your chosen county and to sever all ties with your former domicile. This will be difficult in this case as she still has significant family and business ties to India. I doubt HMRC would consider her to have acquired a domicile of choice here in the UK.

A domicile of choice can be lost if e.g. you decided to leave the UK. A domicile of origin can never be lost.

There's a fundamental difference here between rules and decency - and also societal hierarchies and how well public servants such as the Chancellor treat their fellow human beings.

Mr Sunak and his wife have shown that they fall rather short in the decency stakes.

Add that to the outrageous securing of levelling up funds for Richmondshire for his political and personal gain over other Yorkshire places which are more needy, and you have all you need to know about Mr Sunak without recourse to accountancy loopholes.

...... and of course the difference between morality and the loopholistas is another point at which the decency of British public life collapses into an undemocratic mess - as the loopholes only are at the disposal of the upper class.

In the U.K., all people are not born equal.

@mrshoho

Believe me if I had that much money I'd gladly pay. What the fuck would an individual need 500 million in dividends alone for?

Dead right. And what kind of a person would use loopholes to escape from a social duty?

Dead right. And what kind of a person would use loopholes to escape from a social duty?

Almost every single MN poster, if the threads on jury duty are anything to do by...

It's not just a Tory issue, Labours snouts are well and truly in the trough too on this issue. Which is why Labour will never run closing tax loopholes as a manifesto pledge. They all benefit.

You are nothing to any of them, Labour or tory or whatever else. You are cattle, you are nothing, you mean nothing, you are expendable, to all of them. You only matter at election time and only if someone from the press is looking or if they know it will garner negative attention to avoid.

It's not cynical, it's honest, and it's the truth, and realising this is actually pretty freeing.

None of them care about you and they are all the same, and nothing will change. if voting actually made a difference, do you think they would actually let us do it? Haha, get real.

So you're telling me a multi millionaire, married to the Chancellor, a UK born man, permanently living here, own their residential property, raising their children here, would have great difficulty in acquiring uk domiciled status?

To quote @Lockheart "As I have said on this thread several times, the threshold for acquiring a domicile of choice in the UK is very very high and she will find it difficult to prove she intends to settle here indefinitely when she still has family in India."

My theory is that she has told HMRC her domicile of choice is the US. It's where she was living immediately prior to moving to the UK, they have a significant property there (£5m) and they held US green cards. In the same way that Mark Carney came over with his family to be a non Dom here and run the BoE, they told HMRC Rishi was just here to be an MP temporarily. Hence they both retained their green cards.

Rishi may have decided it was too risky for him to try to be a non Dom too (or maybe he can't do that anyway, I'm no tax lawyer) but he held on to that green card regardless.

I am very keen to find out if my theory that she is saying US is her domicile is correct as that would mean Rishi's statement of wanting to return to India to look after her elderly (billionaire) parents was misleading. And that would mean he is even more toast than he already is.

@Choux

To quote *@Lockheart* "As I have said on this thread several times, the threshold for acquiring a domicile of choice in the UK is very very high and she will find it difficult to prove she intends to settle here indefinitely when she still has family in India."

My theory is that she has told HMRC her domicile of choice is the US. It's where she was living immediately prior to moving to the UK, they have a significant property there (£5m) and they held US green cards. In the same way that Mark Carney came over with his family to be a non Dom here and run the BoE, they told HMRC Rishi was just here to be an MP temporarily. Hence they both retained their green cards.

Rishi may have decided it was too risky for him to try to be a non Dom too (or maybe he can't do that anyway, I'm no tax lawyer) but he held on to that green card regardless.

I am very keen to find out if my theory that she is saying US is her domicile is correct as that would mean Rishi's statement of wanting to return to India to look after her elderly (billionaire) parents was misleading. And that would mean he is even more toast than he already is.

It's possible, I don't know much about US tax law and residency or domicile there so I couldn't say.

I would find it extremely unlikely that Rishi could be considered UK non-dom. He's lived here all his life (as far as I know?) and is obviously Chancellor! I don't think its about risk, I think it would be impossible for him to be UK non-dom at the moment.

I'm just pissed that Bojo with his trip to Ukraine is busy polishing his halo whilst getting away with so much suspicious corrupt behaviour in the past, there is no one other than Sunak who was in the running for the top job.

Sunak was at Stanford in Cali in 2006. That's where he met his wife. This article says he lived abroad till he became MP in 2015.

I would be interested to know about the Richmond Tory candidate selection process and how the local Conservative party decided to select a California resident. And why a multi millionaire in California would want to take a safe Tory seat in Yorkshire for pay of c£75k p.a (he wasn't initially a minister). It smacks of ulterior motives on both sides.

inews.co.uk/news/us-green-card-who-can-apply-permanent-resident-rishi-sunak-wife-1565894

@Polyanthus2

I'm just pissed that Bojo with his trip to Ukraine is busy polishing his halo whilst getting away with so much suspicious corrupt behaviour in the past, there is no one other than Sunak who was in the running for the top job.

Totally agree, That porky, bumbling moron is a joke and a national disgrace but even worse is the fact that, when you look at the lot of those bastards warming the green benches, there's not anyone that really stands out as an alternative?

Worse it's a two party system, The Green and the Lib Dems both supported Aimee Challoner, who employed their child raping, nonce father. So as if they're alternatives. It's like picking between pokemon red or blue.

@Polyanthus2

I'm just pissed that Bojo with his trip to Ukraine is busy polishing his halo whilst getting away with so much suspicious corrupt behaviour in the past, there is no one other than Sunak who was in the running for the top job.

Well.... there was Liz Truss I read she has an Irish passport so she also has an escape route lined up. I'm astounded she was ever mentioned in the same breath as the words 'future PM' though.

[quote Choux]Sunak was at Stanford in Cali in 2006. That's where he met his wife. This article says he lived abroad till he became MP in 2015.

I would be interested to know about the Richmond Tory candidate selection process and how the local Conservative party decided to select a California resident. And why a multi millionaire in California would want to take a safe Tory seat in Yorkshire for pay of c£75k p.a (he wasn't initially a minister). It smacks of ulterior motives on both sides.

inews.co.uk/news/us-green-card-who-can-apply-permanent-resident-rishi-sunak-wife-1565894[/quote]
Ah I didn't realise he'd lived in the US! I don't think I'd change my answer about his possible non-dom status based on that though. He's very well-established here, if theoretically he was to try and acquire a domicile of choice e.g. in the US I think HMRC would take a very dim view right now.

I love it when the Tory PRs are against the ropes so trot out the ‘the are all as bad as each other’ defence. The mission is clearly to increase voter apathy, keep turn outs low in the hope their lot stay in. I’m almost certain MPs like Caroline Lucas and Stella Creasy don’t hold green cards or have their families benefit financially from their partners non don status.

They are not all the same.

Fishy was parachuted in by Cummings. He’s a wannabe San Fran tech bro Ayn Rand fan Brexiteer. Same as Cummings. Cummings also picked his advisors (remember this is sticking point Javid resigned over). Fishy’s team were probably leaking anti Boris info to Cummings including the garden party pictures. Boris’s people timed the revenge attack against Fishy for when Boris was out of the county to keep him away from the fallout and questions.

This info has been out there for a while, even Private Eye reported on it a while back so Fishy’s leak investigation (notice how he wasn’t so quick to launch an investigation to find out where the stolen furlough money went?) is bollocks, he knows who leaked this but he’s got to pretend it’s some disgruntled junior staff member or Labour so that he can try and keep his job and team in place. Cummings is about to lose a key source.

If not BJ or RS...... then who ???

Seriously...... Liz T, JRM, petty Patel, Javid whatshisname, Michael Gove...,,,

How did we end up with shower of turds???

He wouldn't have been a green card holder if he hadn't lived in the US at some point. But it appears it was for 9 years which I would assume is enough time to meet HMRC criteria that you have settled elsewhere - married to a non Brit, kids, property, work - and are now domiciled elsewhere? Coming back to UK would lose him that status but I could see all his US earnings left there and not being Uk taxed (if that is how it works).

He also has his Cayman Islands 'blind' trust. Am sure there are ways of keeping such a trust not entirely 'blind' - esp if a friend looks after it.

"Ah I didn't realise he'd lived in the US! I don't think I'd change my answer about his possible non-dom status based on that though. He's very well-established here, if theoretically he was to try and acquire a domicile of choice e.g. in the US I think HMRC would take a very dim view right now."

If his domicile of origin is uk, even if he did manage to become non uk domicile by choice while living in the USA, once he became uk resident he would revert back to uk domicile, as a formerly domiciled resident.

@tigger1001

"Ah I didn't realise he'd lived in the US! I don't think I'd change my answer about his possible non-dom status based on that though. He's very well-established here, if theoretically he was to try and acquire a domicile of choice e.g. in the US I think HMRC would take a very dim view right now."

If his domicile of origin is uk, even if he did manage to become non uk domicile by choice while living in the USA, once he became uk resident he would revert back to uk domicile, as a formerly domiciled resident.

I'm not sure what his domicile of origin is as I don't know the domicile of his parents when he was born. He may have acquired a UK domicile of dependency through his parents when he was young. But yes, you're correct that even if he'd managed to become non-dom he'd have lost that when he moved back.

Green cards are really hard to come by - and theyre not win win because you have to declare all your world income for US tax purposes annually, They are a hassle. but as I said hard to come by.

DH had to be interviewed by a univeristy professor in the US who was an expert in his field to be allowed to get to work there and to get a green card.

@Lockheart thanks for that. I wasn't thinking about domicile of dependency. I'm currently studying for tax exams and domicile is one of my nemesis areas! Am hoping all this discussion surrounding this will help lodge it in my mind.

@Polyanthus2

Green cards are really hard to come by - and theyre not win win because you have to declare all your world income for US tax purposes annually, They are a hassle. but as I said hard to come by.

DH had to be interviewed by a univeristy professor in the US who was an expert in his field to be allowed to get to work there and to get a green card.

You are forgetting Sunak went to Stanford for an MBA. Getting a student visa for the US would be easy if you have an acceptance letter to study as Stanford. Stanford attracts students from all over the world so post the MBA graduates would likely be offered a period of day 12 months to find work and convert their student visa to a work one. (I knew an American who went to a prestigious school in France for an MBA and the student visa and post graduation visa rules did not take much navigating)

All countries want the brightest and, if you have got in / graduated Stanford, the doors to the US will be open.

2015 info on R
Rishi Sunak: a businessman who co-founded a multinational investment firm. He now invests in small and fast-growing British businesses. Mr Sunak is a governor of the East London Science School. An Oxford graduate, he did an MBA at Stanford University in the US, where he was a Fulbright Scholar.

www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/11544335.four-running-successor-william-hague/

Seems to be the only one without much Tory history