To wonder who funds a teacher's school trip

[iwasjustwonderingreally]

My daughter went skiing with her school in February half term.

Four teachers accompanied them.

Do teachers pay for themselves, or a contribution, (I appreciate they are working though), or is the cost to the pupil inflated to cover the cost of the teachers?

The OP does not suggest in any of her posts that teachers should pay for themselves on these trips.

My eldest DS a teacher. He is low paid and works so many hours outside of school. He has just placed an order for well done stickers and props to help him trying to teach science to year 5. Total cost 80 pounds all out of his own pocket. He is also going in the school holidays on an outward bound course with 42 8-10 year olds. His time and all unpaid. Teachers are saints as far as I am concerned

This kind of thing doesn't help at all. Why has he bought well done stickers out of his own money? It ultimately has the effect that all teachers are expected to do that. And nor are teachers saints. Neither are doctors, nurses, lifeboat crews, paramedics. They are humans doing the work they have trained for.

I’ve taken kids abroad, although Spain, not skiing. Of course I didn’t pay, are you insane? And yes I had a drink of an evening and one staff member wouldn’t.

You (or your ‘mate’) clearly want to complain, so why don’t you. But don’t expect teachers to be willing to give up their free time to take away your entitled brats next time.

Am now wondering how they knew the teachers were drunk, a video of teachers laughing and having fun?
Can you imagine the furore of the complaining parents if they got a call from the school,
'Can you please come and collect Montgomery from school, a pupil has shown a video of him laughing and having fun, he is clearly inebriated'

They company running the trip will have a package price deal for schools and scout groups etc. Such as 30 children minimum of 4 adults (free) , each child pays £100 each. The cost of the teacher is absorbed into the package price. The child /parent pays indirectly as such. But the teacher place is "free" so there is no breakdown for the cost of the adults iyswim? I know this to be true for alot of places that run residentials, but not all of them. The school obvs pay the staff their usual wage, some maybe able to claim over time but any extra time worked is usually taken as time in lieu

All teachers had a few drinks on the school trips I went on, tipsy does not mean incapable of looking after someone either. Complaining would be absolutely ridiculous as pp have said.

@MichaelAndEagle

The OP does not suggest in any of her posts that teachers should pay for themselves on these trips.

It’s implied (heavily) that whether she was paying for the teachers or not is a factor in quite how daily mail sad face a response is merited, wouldn’t you say?

Why else would you even ask?

Who pays is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand, and if you include it you will dilute your complaint OP.

The company makes the decision to include 'free' teacher spaces or they wouldn't get any bookings. So technically no-one is 'paying' for the teachers as these are complementary places given by the ski company. Of course how they do it is by increasing the per pupil cost but legally, in contract, those teacher places will be free. It's a total distraction from your complaint and you'll get nowhere with it.

If one teacher was very drunk then if they were 'on duty' that's gross misconduct. If they weren't 'on duty' (i.e. not working - do you expect that teachers work 24/7 on these trips?) but still on a school trip it's not a good example, and they probably will get a ticking off from the HT.

When teachers aren't working they can drink alcohol. But doing it to excess isn't ok because it isn't a good example and it could affect their performance when they are next on duty.

However, are there any adults e.g. other teachers or ideally staff at the place they're staying who can verify this because it's not like kids totally exaggerating when they feel hard done by isn't a thing.

The pupils pay for the teachers or the teacher places are "free" with an education company. If they go in term time parents also pay for cover for the lessons they're missing.

Of course we could always not go on any trips, or go on trips and leave the rest of the students with nothing to do.

I once walked out if a restaurant in Iceland crying due to students behaviour. I'd have been mightily pissed off if id paid for the privilege.

In fact I have been on field trips completely unpaid as I work part time and as I do geography and field trips are essential to the curriculum I have volunteered to go on my days off.

I'm such an awful person.

I do hope the children who videoed teachers without consent get expelled at the very least.

I'm not paying to go in the guide camp I've planned in May either. Selfish bitch that I am!

I missed the fact that the trip was in half term.

A completely unpaid week of 24/7 responsibility only to come back to a bunch of dickhead parents spreading rumours about teachers having a drink in the evenings of their unpaid work trip. The children were filming the teachers too?

There's another thread live that is discussing declining literacy of teachers: ostensibly the literacy and numeracy tests for trainee teachers are being scrapped due to recruitment issues. OP, why do you think there is a recruitment crisis in education...?

@bigTillyMint

There are usually a number of free adult spaces included in the cost. I guess that ultimately the parents are paying for the teacher, but the teachers are in locoparentis obvs

As a teacher on a school trip you're expected to be far more careful than a parent. As a parent you would probably be happy to sit and have a coffee while your child of around 13 plays on the beach within your sight, if said child falls and breaks an arm it's an accident. Do exactly the same as a teacher and it's possibly a career destroying event. A friend once took a ski trip, he called the Head and said 'Do you want the good news or the bad?' 'The bad' 'A girl's broken her arm' 'So what's the good news then?' 'It was your daughter so there'll be no trouble from the parents!' Remember school trips abroad are often in holiday time so a teacher is not only giving up some holiday time but possibly missing time with their own children

This is probably one of the worst drip feeds I’ve seen.

Take your own sodding kids skiing next time.

Might be worth pointing out to all the parents queueing to sign up to this complaint (on the word of a few teenagers) that this will almost certainly put the kibosh on any future residential trips going ahead.
It's hard enough to get staff to go as it is, even for skiing.

@AndAsIfByMagic

I do hope the children who videoed teachers without consent get expelled at the very least.

They probably shouldn’t even have had their phone with them either. No electronics has been a rule on every residential my kids have been to. For good reason.

Inflated cost? No, but the price represents the cost of the trip including the adults that need to go.
I'm frankly amazed that teachers are willing to spend half term on a coach to Italy with 40 teenagers and deal with all of that. Good on them

@MySecretHistory I think my experience is highly relevant.
I had to be accompanied to hospital by a teacher, which obviously left the teachers back at the hotel short-staffed. The kids who'd witnessed my seizure why quite upset. We were all about 13 I think, so quite young really. The whole episode was quite a challenge for the staff, and had any of them been even slightly drunk, it would have made the situation a lot worse.

School trips are incredibly hard work for teachers, and I'm hugely grateful to all of the ones who have accompanied me and my kids over the years. But the fact remains that they have a responsibility to stay fully coherent at all times, in the same way that anyone does when they're working.

@iwasjustwonderingreally

For those surprised that I ask ...

The teachers aren't with the children during the day as they are off skiing on their own (as the children are in ski school).

They are all also drinking at night and one got particularly drunk.

It has been raised as a complaint and, before I decide whether or not I want to put my name to any complaint, I want to find out if it's been paid for by parents or not!

Surely you're not claiming that parents never have a drink and occasionally too many?

@IceVolcanoes

Some kid took a photo of the teacher holding a beer presumably. Then spread it around on social media claiming the teachers were all wasted. That’s my guess at what’s really happened.

Meanwhile, little Johnny didn’t get personalised nursing care like he would from mummy, when he had a bit of a headache.

So the teachers should all be hung. Clearly.

And the HT is trying to cover it up too. 🙄

This

This question has sent my blood pressure up! I will respond with 2 examples I've experienced myself as a teacher:

On a choir tour to Italy, I have never been so tired and stressed, and I was with a group of well-behaved teenage boys who were truly a delight to accompany. But the 6.00 am starts, the not getting to bed until the small hours (late concerts far away), the constant, constant head counting and checking EVERYTHING is just relentless. In addition, 3 boys needed hospital treatment and that involved getting taxis to distant hospitals (with my rudimentary Italian - thank goodness so many of them spoke English) to make decisions about injuries and illnesses which you just hoped would be right. It was exhausting, and that was with no behaviour issues to deal with.

Second case: Year 6 Journey - a teacher couldn't go and my fantastic TA volunteered, even though she'd had something booked for the half-term with her family. After a shattering week, she was counting the kids off the coach while their families waitied, only to hear (on of the least supportive) parents turn to another and say 'It's just a bloody free holiday for the teachers, isn't it?' She had to restrain herself not to whack this horrible, unimaginative person, who was often reluctant to take responsibilty for their own offspring, never mind 30 of other people's.

Grrrrr. Try it and see if it's a free holiday. Remember Land's End.

There won’t be anymore school trips going from that school moving forward! This is why so many schools don’t bother anymore.

The funding is a red herring
Even if the teachers flights abs accommodations were paid , the teachers would probably be below minimum wage if considered that they should all be avail24*7

The teachers were formally responsible , trusted by the parents and failed

They didn't all need to be sober but they should have ensured someone was ?

Most companies who run school visits offer x number of staff places depending on how many children are paid for. This applies to residential and day trips usually.

Teachers definitely don't pay for themselves. It's part of the job in many schools - not really a perk, as supervising a trip is extremely stressful generally and residential are hard work, even if the main activity is run by instructors.

Teachers also aren't paid for the extra hours they work on trips either, so they are usually working additional several hours unpaid including being 'available' 24 hours a day whilst in residential.

@iwasjustwonderingreally

The complaint is that their child was ill and they'd have expected there to be at least one teacher who wasn't drunk and who could take responsibility.

I would imagine we'd all hope that when sending our kids away with the school.

There is video/photographic evidence of drunken teachers. The Head Mistress has actually contacted some pupils asking them to delete the photos.

What load of drip-feeding bollocks.

If you're that bothereded , and welcome to MN, asking MN won't help. You may find that the teachers were paid for by a beneficent fairy.

But that's not your point, is it. You're just stirring the shit.

Oh and I absolutely guarantee you will NOT return with the results of your "concern" about this matter.