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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder who funds a teacher's school trip

482 replies

iwasjustwonderingreally · 06/04/2022 10:41

My daughter went skiing with her school in February half term.

Four teachers accompanied them.

Do teachers pay for themselves, or a contribution, (I appreciate they are working though), or is the cost to the pupil inflated to cover the cost of the teachers?

OP posts:
Piggy42 · 07/04/2022 07:25

I haven’t read the updates so I’m going to ignore the drinking bit. In terms of paying, surely nobody would expect the teachers to pay. Ok there are some perks of skiing on their own but why would any teacher want to pay to give up their holiday to look after a load of teenagers.

NotaMary · 07/04/2022 07:33

There are allocated ‘free’ places for the teacher, provided by the travel company, dependent on the number of pupils travelling. Teachers are not paid any overtime and give up their weekend and holidays to cover these trips, during which they are constantly on duty. It is an incredible gift of their time and a huge responsibility for them to undertake.

comfortablyfrumpy · 07/04/2022 08:24

@pastapestoparmesan

Four teachers accompanied them. I’m incredibly grateful to them for giving up their half term with family and friends to keep my child and their friends safe, and ensure they had a great time. I made sure to thank them all in person when they returned.

There you go OP, fixed it for you.

^all of that.
melj1213 · 07/04/2022 09:09

@iwasjustwonderingreally

The complaint is that their child was ill and they'd have expected there to be at least one teacher who wasn't drunk and who could take responsibility.

I would imagine we'd all hope that when sending our kids away with the school.

There is video/photographic evidence of drunken teachers. The Head Mistress has actually contacted some pupils asking them to delete the photos.

How do you know there wasn't one teacher who wasn't drunk? Just because the teachers are socialising and some were drunk doesn't mean they all were.

I work for a company who organises language immersion programmes for teenagers every summer in Spain.

Our staff are onsite 24/7 for a month - the day starts at 8am; structured activities end at 10.30pm and curfew is midnight so night patrols go on till about 2/3am. There is a rolling rota of who is on duty but with the long, involved days we don't expect our staff to never have a glass of wine or beer after a long day. The rules are that if you are not on night duty then you can have a drink when all of the kids are in their rooms.

Most venues we use are hotels so they usually have a bar with a terrace which is usually where the staff will sit and have a drink. Usually those on night duty will also sit on the terrace between security patrols as it is one of the few times all of the staff can sit and chat together without being in charge of the children, so it is often when they have planning meetings, catchups about the day as well as relaxing and socialising. If a teenager came to the group late in the evening due to an emergency then some of the group may have had a drink but there would always be a minimum of two totally sober and on duty staff members, but they may not be able to immediately identify who is on duty if the whole group is having fun and socialising.

poetryandwine · 07/04/2022 09:11

Why so much repetition of the obvious that it would be unacceptable for the children to have been left in the care of drunks, if this happened? Whilst not impossible, and worthy of investigation, this seems unlikely. For the moment my money is on @LittleGwyneth’s version of events. Why so much dissing of teachers?

HeatherShiver · 07/04/2022 09:17

I'd hope the teachers places were funded.
You honestly couldn't pay me to do this.

Clymene · 07/04/2022 09:18

@poetryandwine

Why so much repetition of the obvious that it would be unacceptable for the children to have been left in the care of drunks, if this happened? Whilst not impossible, and worthy of investigation, this seems unlikely. For the moment my money is on *@LittleGwyneth*’s version of events. Why so much dissing of teachers?
Never underestimate how much teachers are hated on MN. They're up there with MILs
theemperorhasnoclothes · 07/04/2022 09:48

This thread is heartening I suppose in that so many people are saying the payment point is irrelevant and also to be sure of facts before you decide what really happened.

But on a further point, I just don't understand why parents who feel like this send their kids on school trips. It's skiing FFS - one of the most high risk activities you can do. Obviously there is a risk your child will be injured. Teachers (or ski instructors) aren't magicians they can't prevent things from happening.

It's really unclear from the OP whether there was any harm that occurred to a child or whether they were just outraged that the teachers had been drinking. Children will get sick on holiday, there will be accidents, just as there would be if you took your own kids. Accepting this is part of signing up to the trip and in fact part of travelling - particularly if you're doing something like skiing.

Clymene · 07/04/2022 09:52

I don't even think it was a skiing injury was it? The OP says the kid was unwell. Probably had too much to drink Grin

65honeybee · 07/04/2022 10:06

Why so much dissing of teachers?

Standard on MN, especially coming up to school holidays.

Boredom? Resentment? Plain old fashioned pot stirring? Take your pick!

theemperorhasnoclothes · 07/04/2022 10:06

Yes it wasn't a skiing injury but my point was really that they were accepting a level of risk in sending their kids on this holiday and then getting up in arms about teachers having a few drinks? It doesn't really make sense, unless you're holding teachers to impossible standards.

dephlogisticated · 07/04/2022 10:39

I'm surprised you need to ask this, would you expect to pay to go somewhere where you are working? It is very very hard work to be a teacher on a trip- not to mention all the admin beforehand, and a huge amount of responsibility.

justfiveminutes · 07/04/2022 11:16

Oh please come back and update op.

Was it an inebriated, incompetent teacher who left a seriously ill pupil to fend for themselves?

Or a teacher who had a single beer but didn't offer enough tlc to a dramatic teenager with a bit of a sniffle?

I'd be interested to know what the photographic evidence showed too.

Pissed teachers on trips are suspended and usually make the news but I haven't seen anything yet.

ldontWanna · 07/04/2022 11:23

@Mistressiggi

I wonder what replies like this would be if instead of an ill child not being appropriately attended to, the thread was about a child coming to serious harm due to lack of supervision/drinking. Well they'd be the same really wouldn't they, investigate the claims of drunkenness and have some proof before damming the supervising staff on the basis of hearsay.
And what would that proof be? Because children's accounts are being dismissed, video/photo proof as well.

So unless a member of staff actually comes forward (and even then I suspect there would be doubt) then there is no proof.

I work in a school, I know how hard it is,how bonkers some parents and complaints can be and how a child's interpretation of what happened is very different from what actually happened.

However I don't think that this insistence that teachers can never be in the wrong,all children lie and we should all be eternally grateful for their work is doing anyone any good.

Some posters completely refuse to accept the possibility that this could happen and some think that if did it's not that bad or a big deal because teachers work hard and trips are exhausting (which I find even worse).

C8H10N4O2 · 07/04/2022 11:27

However I don't think that this insistence that teachers can never be in the wrong,all children lie and we should all be eternally grateful for their work is doing anyone any good

It is however an entirely normal reaction to people assuming that Not My Nigel is never wrong and that the teacher is always at fault.

The head was entirely correct to tell them to delete pictures taken without consent - that would be true even if it depicted people silently reading. It doesn't follow that any complaint has been dismissed or is being covered up, its basic privacy.

Musmerian · 07/04/2022 13:47

It’s not quite like that. I am currently in the throes of organising a trip - unlike ski trips it’s not done by a company so I’ve been booking all sorts of things individually, making sure invoices are paid, chasing kids to reply , sorting complicated risk assessments. I’m doing it because it’s important for the department profile and the subject and because I know how much students get from that. It’s exhausting and you have to be on the ball the whole time if you’re in charge . Ski trips , although staff do get the opportunity to ski, are still stressful. One year my husband spent three days at the hospital with different students. If we just wanted a jolly we would go on our own.

theemperorhasnoclothes · 07/04/2022 18:45

No one's saying that teachers can never be in the wrong - just that jumping to conclusions that they are on very shaky evidence at best from the OPs comments - is not proportionate. I said before I probably would sign a letter asking for an investigation, but I wouldn't sign a letter complaining that teachers were inappropriately drunk given I wasn't there without having a bit more evidence.

And that who pays for teachers' places is totally irrelevant.

Frankly the original question - about who pays - makes me doubt the other stuff. Why on earth would you bring that into something like this unless you were on a general mud slinging campaign?

mamaduckbone · 07/04/2022 18:47

When we go on school trips (U.K. not overseas though) there are free places for accompanying teachers.

pollyglot · 07/04/2022 23:08

I've organised many school trips, abroad, residential within the country and full-day. They are SO much work. Months of preparations, then 24/7 on duty on the actual trip. Dealing with severe diabetics, allergy-sufferers, somnambulists, home-sickness, hysteria. Matron tasked with preparing meds for various kids, and then forgetting one...too late, we were already on the road - and guess who got the blame...I was supposed to check the meds that the medically-trained matron had sorted. But the parents were beyond lovely and supportive. We (DH and I) took some 10-12 year old boys to Rome for the day, accompanied by some parents. It was just magic, and the parents gave us some absolutely beautiful gifts as a thank-you. Wonderful experiences, but to pay for myself to go, after all those preps and with all those responsibilities? Are you serious?

FrippEnos · 08/04/2022 06:48

ldontWanna

Why are you so insistent that the teachers must be in the wrong?

I have organised/ lead and been on many trips in my years of teaching and I have only ever know of one teacher get completely hammered.

That teacher was investigated and suspended and was never allowed out of a trip again (even to local theme parks).

And there is no insistence that teachers can never be wrong, just that it is investigated fairly and proof brought forward.

echt · 08/04/2022 07:42

However I don't think that this insistence that teachers can never be in the wrong,all children lie and we should all be eternally grateful for their work is doing anyone any good

No-one has said this. Ever.

Silverclocks · 08/04/2022 07:54

Going on a school trip is hard work, I don't think anyone doubts that, but that doesn't also mean no teacher enjoys it and chooses to go.

The really depressing thing about these threads is how many teachers seem to despise their work, the children and the families they serve which, which isn't my experience IRL at all.

Honestly, no one's indispensable, if it's that awful do yourself and the children a favour and go and do something else.

I do wonder if, in part, the recruitment crisis is self fulfilling. (Some) teachers seem determined to paint the blackest picture possible, whilst continuing to take the salary, they're not helping anyone.

My lived experience is that teaching is hard work, but the vast majority of teachers enjoy their work (most of the time, the same as in any other industry) but a handful of these determined to be miserable can really drag a school down.

Sherrystrull · 08/04/2022 08:00

@Silverclocks

Going on a school trip is hard work, I don't think anyone doubts that, but that doesn't also mean no teacher enjoys it and chooses to go.

The really depressing thing about these threads is how many teachers seem to despise their work, the children and the families they serve which, which isn't my experience IRL at all.

Honestly, no one's indispensable, if it's that awful do yourself and the children a favour and go and do something else.

I do wonder if, in part, the recruitment crisis is self fulfilling. (Some) teachers seem determined to paint the blackest picture possible, whilst continuing to take the salary, they're not helping anyone.

My lived experience is that teaching is hard work, but the vast majority of teachers enjoy their work (most of the time, the same as in any other industry) but a handful of these determined to be miserable can really drag a school down.

I haven't got from this thread that any teachers despise their work or the families they work with.

School staff explaining their lived experiences and the reality of trips in light of an op asking a daft question is what I see.

Trips are incredibly hard work, tons of work but also incredibly rewarding.
However, complaints from parents are probably the worst part.

Lavenderlid · 08/04/2022 08:33

@Silverclocks
I had to stop reading when you wrote "lived experience"

65honeybee · 08/04/2022 08:45

@Lavenderlid yes!