To think teachers should be able to spell

[Brieandcamembert]

I have increasingly noticed recently teachers (often of primary age) who make very basic spelling and grammar errors. Surely having excellent basic skills in this area is an essential criteria for teaching it?

I'm really concerned that we are raising a generation who will have appalling literacy skills.

I have seen the classic "of / have" confusion
I have seen "been" used instead of "being"
I have also seen phonetically similar words interchanged with one another.

@Lazzaroni

There is no excuse whatsoever for a teacher to make mistakes with spelling, grammar or punctuation. Being tired and so on are not excuses. Either they can spell and punctuate, or they can't. If they can't, they ought not to be teaching. I would have been very fed up if any of my DC's teachers had not had flawless written English.

Nobody has flawless written English.

IdontWanna

That is simply not true. People can easily make typos if they're working on the computer. However, nobody who can spell and punctuate and who has a proper grasp of grammar and syntax makes mistakes if they are writing by hand. Your hand just won't allow you to do it. You might just as well ask that same person to hold their breath for ten minutes. It would be equally impossible for them.

Inexcusable in my opinion. "In my day…" etc etc.

@Lazzaroni

IdontWanna

That is simply not true. People can easily make typos if they're working on the computer. However, nobody who can spell and punctuate and who has a proper grasp of grammar and syntax makes mistakes if they are writing by hand. Your hand just won't allow you to do it. You might just as well ask that same person to hold their breath for ten minutes. It would be equally impossible for them.

Once again , no one has flawless English. That would require for someone not only knowing every single grammar and punctuation rule,but also every single English word.

What you are talking about is muscle memory. Knowing something is not enough for muscle memory to kick in. It also needs to be used consistently and regularly in order for that memory to form. For example I know how to spell onomatopoeia (be that in writing or typing) but it's not automatic. I have to think about it for a split second. My hand is more than happy to spell it 3 or 4 different ways , unless I engage my brain. That's because despite using it every single year, it only comes up once a year for a week or two in a regular way.

You are also skimming over the fact that SPAG wasn't taught or considered necessary for decades, so many people/teachers don't have that muscle memory to fall back on, despite going to school,and uni and having what was considered at the time a good enough, maybe even extensive knowledge.

So once again, no one has flawless English and while (correctly formed)muscle memory might help , it's not infallible either.

Not even David Crystal would claim to have flawless English.

I'll never forget my English teachers comment in my end of year report "Oneeata should remember to always refer to her dictinery" I kid you not.

I am a teacher...primary...and I have to agree with you OP 🤦‍♀️ I am also old (will soon be retiring thank goodness 😅)

As an oldie, one of my (many!) hats is to mentor new teachers, which requires lesson observations and 'book looks'. Only last week, I had to have a 'quiet word' with one young teacher, to ask her to correct her spelling on the actual Learning Intention (LI) that she'd written on the board for her Year 4 class to copy. She had written:

LI: To use apostrophes for singular and plural posession

Granted, possession is a tricky word, but if you're a) being observed, and b) writing it for 30 young people to copy, you make absolutely sure that you nail any 'tricky bits' before you start!

(And don't get me started on 'of' instead of 'have' 😨)

@Lazzaroni

IdontWanna

That is simply not true. People can easily make typos if they're working on the computer. However, nobody who can spell and punctuate and who has a proper grasp of grammar and syntax makes mistakes if they are writing by hand. Your hand just won't allow you to do it. You might just as well ask that same person to hold their breath for ten minutes. It would be equally impossible for them.

Bollocks.

I wrote mumy the other day instead of mummy. Not because I don't know how to spell, just because while modelling writing on the flip chart I'm simultaneously watching individuals to check they're focused, managing behaviour, keeping an eye on the clock to make sure my lesson is fast paced enough, distracted by the TA trying to stop 1 child absconding, trying to take ideas for writing from the class to include them but also ensure the ideas I take include the grammar and content needed for the learning that lesson.

I know how to spell mummy ffs. Still made a mistake.

@LeastofLeicester weirdly enough I also had a total brain freeze with mummy. I was making notes on the board, started writing and then totally forgot if it's one m or two. The more I thought about it,the more flustered and confused I became ,arguing the right way in my head until I gave up and asked.

It's always the simple words you make mistakes with isn't it, which kind of proves its not due to lack of spelling ability, but because of tiredness/distraction.

There's a difference in misspelling the word 'mummy' and the word 'possession' -- one is clearly a one-off slip between the mind and the hand due to distraction, as the PP illustrated, the other looks more like ignorance and is likely to be repeated.
For complete disclosure. I'm a good speller but a really crap typist.

Nobody has flawless written English.

A lot of people would have practically flawless written English in the context of a primary school classroom environment. I don't make spelling mistakes. I just don't. Are there really obscure words I might have trouble with, such as technical vocab I hadn't met before? Sure. Do I make typos? Definitely! Do I make spelling mistakes when writing on the board or correcting a child's work? No.

But lots of teachers (including primary) have fairly poor spelling of quite basic words. They commonly make mistakes with the exact spellings, grammar and punctuation that they are trying to instill in their pupils.

I was teaching Spanish a couple of weeks ago to a primary class while their class teacher was putting up a beautiful display on the wall in the classroom. It took her ages. She wrote out a lovely, inspiring poem in big letters in the middle. It contained two incorrect apostrophes (including 'it's' instead of 'its'). She's a lovely, lovely woman and I couldn't bring myself to say anything!

They absolutely should be able to. I have a primary teacher friend who can't, neither does she know the difference between sat and sitting. In the school where my mum works, the number of spelling errors on the staff noticeboard is hilarious; it's a fairly expensive private school.
Just have to rely on parents having a bit of input and correcting their children I suppose.

Of course it's a rare person who has flawless English, and I'm certainly not one of them. But there's a huge difference between a teacher making the odd typo or mistake, and one who consistently mis-spells or mis-punctuates the same simple words, or who 'corrects' a word with her own incorrect spelling.

Anything that I sent out to parents was very very carefully checked by me before it went. So if class newsletters or webpages are consistently full of errors (not just a single typo) it's pretty clear that the teacher isn't just having a distracted moment.

[quote ClaudiusTheGod]@JudgeJ You mean ‘quandary’ not ‘quandry’.[/quote]
Yes, probably!

I remember going to my nieces parents evening and having a very long conversation about spelling and grammar with the teacher and how everything she was teaching was incorrect. Her worst error was teaching the children the word “don’t” as “do’nt”.

Still gives me the rage after 20 years!

@SpringIntoChaos

I am a teacher...primary...and I have to agree with you OP 🤦‍♀️ I am also old (will soon be retiring thank goodness 😅)

As an oldie, one of my (many!) hats is to mentor new teachers, which requires lesson observations and 'book looks'. Only last week, I had to have a 'quiet word' with one young teacher, to ask her to correct her spelling on the actual Learning Intention (LI) that she'd written on the board for her Year 4 class to copy. She had written:

LI: To use apostrophes for singular and plural posession

Granted, possession is a tricky word, but if you're a) being observed, and b) writing it for 30 young people to copy, you make absolutely sure that you nail any 'tricky bits' before you start!

(And don't get me started on 'of' instead of 'have' 😨)

What's a Learning Intention? We didn't have those in my day. We did learn grammar and spelling.

@Abitofalark probably the same as a Learning Objective or IAL or whatever other names they have.

Thanks for replying, IdontWanna. Oh the jargon.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

Neither do the caretaker or the dinner ladies or the woodwork teachers.

Nice to see how you have dated yourself and how you have no clue about the current curriculum.

I wrote mumy the other day instead of mummy. Not because I don't know how to spell, just because while modelling writing on the flip chart I'm simultaneously watching individuals to check they're focused, managing behaviour, keeping an eye on the clock to make sure my lesson is fast paced enough, distracted by the TA trying to stop 1 child absconding, trying to take ideas for writing from the class to include them but also ensure the ideas I take include the grammar and content needed for the learning that lesson. *
*
The above sums it up well. If a teacher only had to think about spelling and grammar, errors should be minimal. When you are doing ten other things at the same time, it's understandable that the odd error creeps in.

Nearly all of the nursery teachers at my sons nursery say and write ‘we was’ and it infuriates me! ‘Today we was making playdoh’.

@Beautifulmonster87

Nearly all of the nursery teachers at my sons nursery say and write ‘we was’ and it infuriates me! ‘Today we was making playdoh’.

Yup, I wasn't overly excited to have to reteach dc that one after he picked it up

As a teacher I agree that this is a problem. Many, many teachers do not punctuate or spell properly. I am sorry to say this but this was not the case when I trained and became an NQT many moons ago. It is very disappointing.

My DC were appalled along with their class mates in Primary at one TA who taught them a bit of grammar and she made loads of mistakes

It was laughable really and it was a great school so no idea why they kept her on

I was at least relieved that my DC knew by then already what was right or wrong so that's something at least

My DS always used to point out any mistakes to his teachers who were excellent btw but just tired or not 100 % on the ball that day what with 30 DC distracting them non stop