Page 11 | To think teachers should be able to spell

Elepha · 06/04/2022 22:46

@Brieandcamembert

I have increasingly noticed recently teachers (often of primary age) who make very basic spelling and grammar errors. Surely having excellent basic skills in this area is an essential criteria for teaching it?

I'm really concerned that we are raising a generation who will have appalling literacy skills.

I have seen the classic "of / have" confusion
I have seen "been" used instead of "being"
I have also seen phonetically similar words interchanged with one another.

An essential criterion (singular noun)

Some essential criteria (plural noun)

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 06/04/2022 22:47

Im not a teacher but this just seems like a general teacher bashing post yet again on here
People make mistakes in all jobs except some of you clearly who are all Mary Poppins

Yes, of course everybody makes mistakes, but this thread is about people who don't have a clue about a very basic part of what they are employed to teach to children.

The whole point of mistakes is that they are aberrations and a deviation from your normal behaviour or abilities. If you are constantly making what appear to be mistakes in your line of work, then they aren't actually mistakes as such: they are evidence of rank incompetence to do what you are doing.

converseandjeans · 06/04/2022 22:55

I was taught grammar lessons at primary school in the 1980s and went onto decent secondary school where we also had specific grammar lessons.

I think this went out of fashion and there will be teachers who never got taught grammar formally.

It's been back in fashion since they made SATS more challenging. I've been teaching MFL for 20 years now & think there has been an improvement in SPAG.

But yes I agree a teacher should be able to spell & understand basic grammar.

MargaretThursday · 06/04/2022 23:17

I agree and disagree.

No, I don't expect teachers never to make mistakes. No, I don't think being poor at spelling should stop you from being a teacher.

However I would expect a teacher to be self-aware and if they were poor at spellings to make sure they double checked when possible.

Yes, there are times when it would be awkward. but they could use it as a learning opportunity. "I can't remember whether opportunity has one or two ps in it. Who can find it first in the dictionary?"
The children will remember the spelling far better like that too.

However having sat in a junior school classroom where the displays were littered with spelling errors ("scarey" instead of "scary" was on twice" for example) I thought that was unacceptable because the teacher would have had plenty of time to check. And actually when I mentioned it to dd, she said one of the boys had queried that spelling and been told that he was wrong. That teacher was apparently an English specialist too.

user1471530109 · 06/04/2022 23:26

I am a pretty good bloody brilliant, experienced teacher of 18+ years. I have an A* in English at GCSE and went to grammar school. Spelling is my downfall. I'm actually not as bad as I think I am and my grammar is usually good (please don't pick this apart). But it has been known that I double check with the secondary age kids if I've spelt something right. It's normally a mental block over common words! I think it's good they can see a flaw tbh.

I don't teach English btw. There is no way I would send anything home with an error in. I double check all communications and ask someone else to check.

ginghamstarfish · 06/04/2022 23:38

You are right OP, it does appear that many teachers are not able to teach correct spelling and grammar. It's a general thing though, as every single day I hear and see errors in books, newspapers, from television and radio presenters, politicians and in fact a majority of those in the public eye.

Icecreamandapplepie · 06/04/2022 23:40

Primary school teacher here- I cringe when our newsletter turns up to be given out to class. The amount of spelling and punctuation errors!

Shouldn't happen. There are quite a few of us who can spell and punctuate correctly, at least have it proof read beforehand.

Neverreturntoathread · 06/04/2022 23:43

Yes it’s so widespread! I’ve had my year 1 daughter’s written work ‘corrected’ to cross out the correct spelling and instead write the wrong spelling.

Yes we have now moved schools.

DdraigGoch · 06/04/2022 23:46

SPAG isn't seen as being that important anymore because most real-world tasks will be done on computers so there will be the option of a spell-checker.

Spell checkers which are only as good as the human using them. They produce some real howlers.

Happymum12345 · 06/04/2022 23:46

As a teacher I’ve made mistakes when marking. Trying to mark work whilst giving feedback to the child and keeping the rest of the class on track is challenging. If we were all sat marking times tables, spellings & general comments in books in peace and quiet, perhaps it would all be perfect.

Seashor · 07/04/2022 06:12

Happymum12345, parents honestly won’t be happy until we receive corporal punishment for spelling mistakes. They don’t have any idea how busy classrooms are and that most of us are clinging on by our fingernails!

DdraigGoch · 07/04/2022 07:06

[quote SpotALeopard]@takealettermsjones - I think SPAG is important, but am sure I make grammar and punctuation mistakes myself all the time. I’ve got the basics Spelling was prioritised when I was at school, but grammar wasn’t really taught. Punctuation was taught on a basic level only. I got a first in English from a good university, but it was only a few years after graduation that I learnt there was a difference between ‘less’ and ‘fewer’. I’d been merrily using ‘less’ in all contexts up until then. It’s our educational system that is at fault, not individuals.[/quote]
Ironically I was taught the difference between "less" and "fewer" in English during a Welsh residential course.

Confrontayshunme · 07/04/2022 07:23

I worked with an amazing dyslexic teacher who found report writing absolute agony and frequently misspelled words, but she was brilliant helping kids to read and be confident and when kids corrected her she took great delight in going "Well done for spotting my error! I will try harder next time to get it right." An excellent lesson for students. We can't eliminate all teachers with dyslexia or who come from poorer backgrounds where grammar is less important because most of them are excellent teachers, and students need them.

SpaceyCake · 07/04/2022 07:24

Yes, I think teachers should know how to spell. The occasional brain fart is fine but you have to have some standards.

CinnamonJellyBeans · 07/04/2022 07:33

Shocking! Ask for a refund.

Puffalicious · 07/04/2022 07:34

@Confrontayshunme

I worked with an amazing dyslexic teacher who found report writing absolute agony and frequently misspelled words, but she was brilliant helping kids to read and be confident and when kids corrected her she took great delight in going "Well done for spotting my error! I will try harder next time to get it right." An excellent lesson for students. We can't eliminate all teachers with dyslexia or who come from poorer backgrounds where grammar is less important because most of them are excellent teachers, and students need them.

Yes, great, but not if you're in charge of spelling. And what has poorer background got to do with it? If you're taught well, you're taught well. Are you implying that teachers in the more deprived areas aren't as good/ effective? I teach in a big, inner-city comprehensive which has massive deprivation and social issues and poverty. Our standards are high and results are outstanding- because they need to be to serve these pupils well.

I'm just about to leave to go in to deliver Easter classes to the 'poor' kids before exams: don't patronise them by expecting less of them because of their background.

Sorry, rant over, but it really pisses me off.

WalkingOnTheCracks · 07/04/2022 07:57

There is no infinitive in the first sentence...

No, there isn't. And even if there were, there's absolutely no reason that one shouldn't split an infinitive in English. That 'rule' is a Victorian stylistic thing, which arose from the idea that English grammar ought to imitate Latin grammar - and you can't split an infinitive in Latin because it's one word.

To totally ignore that 'rule' is fine.

PrivateHall · 07/04/2022 08:07

OP doesn't say this is one teacher making many errors, just that she has spotted those mistakes over time. Anyone can make a mistake, especially when working in a high pressured and busy job. Teachers are human too believe it or not. I am sure op has made the odd minor error at work too.

Original poster

Brieandcamembert · 07/04/2022 08:34

I'm not sure I agree with the notion of not having enough teachers, so the standards have to drop. I do hope no one ever takes up that idea with surgeons.

OP posts:

Lolalime · 07/04/2022 08:36

It is most likely a symptom of their own learning, in the British education system. . I have been with my husband for over 20 yrs and am continually astounded by his knowledge of English grammar, despite English being his second language.
When our kids have SPAG h/w he finds it shocking they have not been taught the structural basics.

PAFMO · 07/04/2022 08:39

@Vintagecreamandcottagepie

Primary school teacher here- I cringe when our newsletter turns up to be given out to class. The amount of spelling and punctuation errors!

Shouldn't happen. There are quite a few of us who can spell and punctuate correctly, at least have it proof read beforehand.

People not knowing that "amount" is used with uncountable nouns doesn't seem to bother you though. Why is that?

PAFMO · 07/04/2022 08:42

@WalkingOnTheCracks

There is no infinitive in the first sentence...

No, there isn't. And even if there were, there's absolutely no reason that one shouldn't split an infinitive in English. That 'rule' is a Victorian stylistic thing, which arose from the idea that English grammar ought to imitate Latin grammar - and you can't split an infinitive in Latin because it's one word.

To totally ignore that 'rule' is fine.

Quite I'd go further and say people moaning about it are a prime example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. As we see all the time on these threads.

TheArtfulBlogger · 07/04/2022 08:44

I worked in a secondary school and they were so desperate they promoted a TA who had no teaching qualification or degree to teach English to all years, including year 11.

Am sure the fact they were in a relationship with the manager of one of the departments had nothing to do with it....and is now sleeping with the assistant head of English is pure coincidence too

But it showed me that it can be a case of who you know, sucking up to the right people and right place right time that get you where you want to be. Not whether you are actually qualified to do it.

Bbq1 · 07/04/2022 09:07

@Brieandcamembert

I have increasingly noticed recently teachers (often of primary age) who make very basic spelling and grammar errors. Surely having excellent basic skills in this area is an essential criteria for teaching it?

I'm really concerned that we are raising a generation who will have appalling literacy skills.

I have seen the classic "of / have" confusion
I have seen "been" used instead of "being"
I have also seen phonetically similar words interchanged with one another.

I agree, but especially when it's regarding basic spellings and obvious grammatical errors. I work in education and cringe when colleagues say things such as, "She can borrow you a pen". I know somebody who worked with children and in that capacity used to write a full page of information with NO punctuation, not even a full stop. I had to reread the information putting punctuation in to make sense of it. Bizarrely and worryingly, that same person now has a major role in teaching. It's almost as if some people missed that part of their education.

WhenSheWasBad · 07/04/2022 09:27

I'm not sure I agree with the notion of not having enough teachers, so the standards have to drop. I do hope no one ever takes up that idea with surgeons

Do you agree that pay and conditions should improve, in order to attract a decent standard of teacher?
It’s a really hard job, one that requires decent pay.