When men say "I prefer women without make-up"...

[ThingThatIBring]

AIBU to think that when men say "I prefer women without make-up" that they don't usually know what they're talking about (and don't usually have a clue that women ARE wearing it)?

The reality of this statement is usually:

• I don't like it when women wear really obvious MAKE-UP make-up (loads of lippy and false eyelashes etc) or when it's badly applied (making it obvious);
• I like really good-looking fresh-faced young women whose complexions, etc., look smooth without it;
• I like to think of myself as very wholesome (and maybe a bit of a feminist).

What they DON'T mean (but don't realise they don't mean) is:

• I prefer the look of the average woman of my own age without any make-up on.

I know so many men who say this, and it always mildly irritates me as it's said like it's a kind of virtue.

As a post-mating-phase human, it's not like it really affects my life. But it always makes me feel for all the women who are still in a position where they're affected by this nonsense...

I wasn't responding to you @skybluee.

One of the reasons you feel so self-conscious is that society values women based on their looks, and teaches all of us that we're not acceptable unless we look a certain way! Do whatever makes you feel more comfortable, but be very clear as where the source of oppression is.

Skybluee, I have spent the last 30+ years supporting women, campaigning for improvements to the lives of women, and challenging discrimination against women, both professionally and in my own time. The majority of the time, I manage to somehow skillfully combine this with wearing lipstick and mascara, without that detracting in the least from the benefits of my work. Had I sat barefaced at my keyboard telling other women they were shallow and brainwashed by the patriarchy because they wear make up, I don't think that would have made me a better feminist or improved the life of one single woman.

Yes @skybluee some of the comments about women who wear make up have been awful, and the fact that those particular posters think they are supporting the sisterhood and railing against the patriarchy whilst insulting women who wear make up is laughable. Make up of some form or other has been used for around 6,000 years, it’s not going anywhere! Don’t let these posters upset you, there are loads of us who love make up, pretty much every single famous beautiful woman and probably a lot of the men too enhance their appearance in some form. Cameron Diaz does not have the best skin and she wears make up, you are in good company.

but be very clear as where the source of oppression is

Indeed. Hitler was very clear about his love of the unadorned female face. When the camps were liberated it was the lipsticks sent by mistake that all the women fell on. That tells me everything I need to know about make up and oppression.

@skybluee I’ve seen plenty of men with red noses and they don’t feel the need to cover it.

Look it’s easy to cover a “flaw” with makeup and I totally understand why you would feel better being flawless. I think yours is less make up and more akin to wearing a loose top to cover a fat tummy or only wearing jeans to cover veiny legs. I do get it.
But ultimately we have to remember it’s everyone else’s problem not yours. Perceptions can be changed.

@Stravaig

I wasn't responding to you *@skybluee*.

One of the reasons you feel so self-conscious is that society values women based on their looks, and teaches all of us that we're not acceptable unless we look a certain way! Do whatever makes you feel more comfortable, but be very clear as where the source of oppression is.

I think most if us are very clear about oppression by men. What is far more insidious is when certain women with their 'don't do what the men tell you, do what I tell you instead' approach grasp the baton. At least when its men, we know what we're up against. Attacking, policing and trying to control other women in the name of feminism is the own goal we're not expecting.

Maybe you weren't responding to me but the implication by saying 'Uneven skin tone is a hop, skip & jump away from pigmentation is bad' was that there may be a racial element to it which is what I objected to as there isn't.

No, the reason I feel self conscious is that locally in the past I've had a lot of people make comments which makes me apprehensive about it happening again as I do not want that. I agree that society heavily values women based on looks which is wrong IMO.

However, the reason I apply make-up is because I want to and I feel better and happier that way. I don't apply it because I care what stupid kids (who make comments) or random people who make comments think, just like I wouldn't not apply it because of what someone on this thread said.

5128, what you say is really interesting. I'm glad you don't think being barefaced would've made you a better feminist because I strongly identify as a feminist and hate the thought that wearing make-up would affect that. To me it should be irrelevant really.

AmberLynn, I think Cameron Diaz is stunning. Yes, I've been shocked by some of the comments on this thread! Thanks for what you said. To me feminism should be about making your own choice and I think I find the negative comments from other women about women ironic/sad in the same way you do.

Interestingly, I've seen there's a massive increase in the amount of men wearing make-up and ranges for men being brought out. I wonder if people feel the same way about that?

Neither my dp nor my exh liked makeup. I don't wear much anyway but when I put it on (for myself) I get a you look pretty without it comment

I feel I look cleaner, brighter and fresher and with make up. I've become slightly darker around the eyes and concealer makes a huge difference. I find if I look brighter I feel brighter.

As for what men want, I couldn't give a flying.

At least when its men, we know what we're up against. Attacking, policing and trying to control other women in the name of feminism is the own goal we're not expecting

Totally. I’m so pleased you said that @5128gap.

I’ve seen plenty of men with red noses and they don’t feel the need to cover it.

Some men would want to cover it though, but it’s not really mainstream for men to wear make up. If women are socially conditioned to wear it, it is the opposite for men, in that way women are pretty fortunate, we can cover things we don’t like generally (apart from on this thread) without judgement. I do think things are changing though, the male grooming market is booming, I think the make up best seller for men is concealer and brow gel.

My DH wore makeup for our wedding (just some concealer, brows and bronzer at the temples, I think). He was amazed at the change (esp in photos) and said to me, now I know why you love makeup. He decided to get makeup professionally done when he realized how tired he looked in our pre wedding photo shoot. I think he looked nice but he disagreed.

If makeup makes you look better, then I think both men and women shouldn't feel ashamed of wanting to use it. I think a lot of men aren't exposed to makeup; a lot of them would probably love it if they had their makeup professionally done/were taught how to use it.

@AmberLynn1536 And I would be well within my right to say I prefer men without make up especially covering perceived flaws.

Liking people to be their authentic selves doesn’t make me some sexist weirdo.

See also grey hair.

On the flip side, I don't think anyone should have to wear make-up and don't think there should be things like work policies stating you have to wear make-up (I think air hostesses may be subject to this) much like I don't think there should be any policies around high heels or skirts.

I think men's make-up will become massive but mainly skin care.

You're spot fucking on for a large majority.

But not all.

Just asked a couple of trusted ones.
"Yes, we know when you ARE wearing slap. A touch of very light eye makeup might fool us, but get close enough and we know.
And, though full warpaint for a night out is OK, if you want to, do it for YOU. We'd be quite happy if you didn't. And that goes for perfume too.
And your natural hair colour is just fine. Really.

Keep with the boob jobs though. (Joke. Stop hitting me.)"

@DrSbaitso that butterfly wing eye makeup is lovely. Have sent that pic to my DDs who will probably give it a go

@Stravaig

'Uneven skin tone' is a hop, skip & jump away from 'pigmentation is bad'. I have freckles and splotches and patches of pigment, I flush easily, I'm weathered by time and the elements. I have no idea what an 'even skin tone' is, or why I should find it interesting or desirable.

Who said you should? It's a discussion about makeup, not you personally.

If you're not interested in what is meant by uneven skin tone, and you don't care to learn, I won't tell you. But you could increase your chances of not hearing about things that don't interest you by not participating in conversations about them.

[quote Brefugee]@DrSbaitso that butterfly wing eye makeup is lovely. Have sent that pic to my DDs who will probably give it a go[/quote]
Isn't it?

The woman in the picture has a beautiful face, but the butterfly isn't intended to make her "more beautiful", it's just lovely skin art. I'd love to see the butterfly flapping as she blinks.

Why is it so highbrow and virtuous for a man to paint naked women, and so terrible for a woman to paint her own face?

Yes, I heard this from my ex. " You don't don't need make up Darling". (Generally when we were going out and I was running late!). Oh, and when I didn't wear any make-up eg: on a day out walking with the dogs.." You're looking tired.." I wouldn't mind but I wear very little make up, the thing that takes up most time is applying mascara. They have NO idea. God help them if 'they' had to deal with, eg: hair straightening every morning, eyelash application, fake tan application (and stained bedsheets)..I could go on. As long as you feel good, who cares?

He wouldn’t have a choice with me. I don’t own any makeup!

@Marathoninjury

My friends boyfriend said he preferred women without makeup, I asked like who for example? He said Reece Witherspoon, Halle berry and Sandra bullock always look great and don’t wear makeup. Then said every man fancies at least one of the women from friends and every woman wanted to be one of them and they didn’t wear makeup but then the kardashians shot to fame and ‘the main one’ wear makeup and ‘another one’ sells it and that’s why it’s so popular now.

That was an interesting conversation.

🤣🤣 even the men in friends wore makeup lol

Those calling it misogynistic are twisted.
The reality is a woman who is beautiful without make up is truly beautiful. A woman who is beautiful with make up, who the hell knows.

Men are allowed their preferences, same a women. It’s alright for there to be filters on dating apps to eliminate men below a certain heigh but the mere suggestion of a weight filter when looking for female matches isn’t “body positive” and misogynistic.

It’s insane how soft people are.

Those calling it misogynistic are twisted
The reality is a woman who is beautiful without make up is truly beautiful. A woman who is beautiful with make up, who the hell knows

Yes and men who are probably utterly average looking but believe they are entitled to be with a woman who is beautiful without a single bit of artificial help are misogynistic I think you'll find

@ThingThatIBring

AIBU to think that when men say "I prefer women without make-up" that they don't usually know what they're talking about (and don't usually have a clue that women ARE wearing it)?

The reality of this statement is usually:

• I don't like it when women wear really obvious MAKE-UP make-up (loads of lippy and false eyelashes etc) or when it's badly applied (making it obvious);
• I like really good-looking fresh-faced young women whose complexions, etc., look smooth without it;
• I like to think of myself as very wholesome (and maybe a bit of a feminist).

What they DON'T mean (but don't realise they don't mean) is:

• I prefer the look of the average woman of my own age without any make-up on.

I know so many men who say this, and it always mildly irritates me as it's said like it's a kind of virtue.

As a post-mating-phase human, it's not like it really affects my life. But it always makes me feel for all the women who are still in a position where they're affected by this nonsense...

they mean me, obviously - don't wear a scrap except once in a few years, maybe? Nobody NEEDS make up after all :) Response purely to the OP and not read the thread at all :D